Making Pure More Pure.

[RKF1]

I have a suggestion for the Pure servers. Since transitioning back to the community tab I have noticed an uptick in people who seem new to Rust joining the server which is great. I have also noticed they don't seem to understand what Rust is, a survival game. I am suggesting making the server less forgiving by also giving the admins less work. Most Rust players at one time or another learned the hard way if you don't secure and lock your stuff, someone will take it. I think that is a great way to learn to build better and think better about how you approach playing this game. The admins spend so much time essentially making new players whole because they don't secure their things. This doesn't teach new players anything more than I can play careless and just complain to an admin when my things get taken. I think we should remove the admin loot protection, and allow stealing. Raiding and Killing obviously shouldn't be allowed, but if you log off outside, or don't secure your stuff then it's a lesson learned. This will take Pure to an even purer level of Rust gameplay, and obviously, I am all for it. 

[BigDave]

I don't think you'll improve the rustez community by encouraging theives. Like removing a speed limit will reduce speeding offences, the admins workload for theft will reduce but the very foreseen consequences of allowing this type of behaviour will degrade the community that makes RustEZ great and give the admins a lot more work overall.

There are many aspects of PVP rust that you can learn on PVE servers, like how monument puzzles work, how to craft, using the building menu etc. The PVP aspects of the games, such as protecting yourself for people that want to raid loot and kill you, that's what you learn when you actually play PVP.

Warning then banning people for not meeting the communities standard of human decency works well, we have a great community overall so let's keep it that way.

[a 3/0 sc lauan]

It might be plausible if the thieves werent insane with their knowledge of how to exploit bases.  As embarrassing as it is, i've even been stolen from on a couple occasions, and i dont store anything in any boxes or rooms until 100% of my base and storage containers are locked up.  

Then to expect players with sub-100 hours in the game to be able to counter that would be an awfully steep learning curve, even with the community helping out.  I also feel as though this would encourage the bad actors to stick around and prey on those that dont know any better, which would decay the integrity of our community overall. 

[RKF1]

People act like people who steal in Rust are bad actors. They are literally playing within the gameplay set by Facepunch for this game. The pure servers just coddle people way too much in my opinion. My 7 day (wipe) ban has made me look into other PVE servers to find what I am missing in the Pure servers. I just want a true pure vanilla PVE server. No pvp damage and no base damage from other players. Other than that pure vanilla gameplay. Maybe i'll find it out there somewhere.

[InfernalJustice]

Yeah, it is sort of ironic that the staff of EZ is using the terms "integrity and community" while also using a profile picture includes an alt-right symbol.

[a 3/0 sc lauan]

1 hour ago, RKF1 said:

People act like people who steal in Rust are bad actors. They are literally playing within the gameplay set by Facepunch for this game. The pure servers just coddle people way too much in my opinion. My 7 day (wipe) ban has made me look into other PVE servers to find what I am missing in the Pure servers. I just want a true pure vanilla PVE server. No pvp damage and no base damage from other players. Other than that pure vanilla gameplay. Maybe i'll find it out there somewhere.

Its not a "wipe ban" and you'll have plenty of time to save your progression upon the expiration of it.  

Anyway, it is within the gameplay set by facepunch, however as someone who interacts and deals with most of these "people playing the game" its not generally people that hopped on a pve and didnt realize it was no stealing.  A majority of the thieves are players intentionally picking pve servers to grief.  That's a mindset that might short term increase a few players enjoyment of the game, at the expense of the server as a whole in my opinion.  

I dont dislike the concept, but i feel like that's a better concept for a new server instead of a goal to move an established one to, because a community built within those guidelines will jive much better together.  We had how many regulars move to scourge and survival simply because we lost sil and instancing.  Now add stealing allowed? I dont think it would work well here. 

47 minutes ago, InfernalJustice said:

Yeah, it is sort of ironic that the staff of EZ is using the terms "integrity and community" while also using a profile picture includes an alt-right symbol.

If you have any examples of me not treating everyone on our server with integrity, respect, and a sense of community, i would urge you to turn that evidence over to leadership so that they may review it.  

The same goes for my profile picture that i've had since well before pepe memes were allegedy a "symbol of anything" 

If you have an issue with it, or feel i'm being overtly political in regards to it, please, file a report for investigation, as me doing that would be against the rules.

[InfernalJustice]

Look up the Pepe meme.  Whether it is reflective of your treatment or beliefs, I do not know.  I have no experience with you at all.  That being said you are using iconography that has been identified by the Anti-Defamation League as a Hate Symbol.  Nothing personal about it just the facts.  

ADL Adds “Pepe the Frog” Meme, Used by Anti-Semites and Racists, to Online Hate Symbols Database | ADL

I don't think it is reflective of what Death or Facepunch would want to be associated with.  Also, just because you were using it before doesn't mean you shouldn't change it.  The Swastika was used before the Nazis used it, but I don't think it would be okay for you to use that either.

 

Edited January 18 by InfernalJustice

[RKF1]

7 day purge for inactivity right? Or did that change?

While there are a lot of trolls that come in just to cause chaos, there are also new people who maybe didn't know stealing fell under raiding in this server. I've seen other server rule pages, there is plenty of room to add no stealing or trespassing. 

I could see your point if this server hadn't just undergone a huge change and lost a lot of long time players. I would say now would be the perfect time for a major change like this. 

On another note. The Pepe thing. I would argue that while how you treat people on the server and in general may be respectful and polite, some people will see your avatar as a hate symbol and you will unintentionally grief them or they may think you are making a political statement even if you aren't. I got a 7 day ban over what people FEEL griefing is vs what griefing actually is. Didn't I just see someone get banned for inappropriate political signage on another EZ server?

[InfernalJustice]

Okay getting back on topic.  There are three reasons why a true Vanilla PVE Experience would be good for Death and EZ as a whole. 

1) A Pure Vanilla version is significantly different than what is currently offered on the EZ other servers and positions you in a different category when creating a unique identity from other people hosting Rust servers.  If people want a more protected version of Rust, you have other servers that can offer that currently.  In other words, EZ's offerings only provide small variations in their servers.  Going full Vanilla would separate it from its competitors and provide a truly different experience.  This means bring back standard Decay. Allow for people to trespass and steal. Keep the no PVE damage to players and builds.

2) Mods could spend their time onboarding new players as opposed to policing stolen goods.  They could get out of policing and focus on the service side of their volunteer jobs.  This would allow them to get to know everyone on the server by explaining how Rust is designed.  As a new player I had no idea what a monument was, or how puzzles were solved.  It would have been really helpful to have a Mod help with this as opposed to the policing role they have right now.  

3) My final point is focused on game design.  I have been an avid gamer of all types of games (PC, Board, and Card) for decades and I've learned that every game has an underlying element that makes it entertaining and engaging. Rust at its core is a game designed on Risk and Reward.  In PVP the Risk and Reward is often time dictated by your ability in PVP combat.  Can I farm one more node or tree without getting killed by another player?  Or when you hear footsteps in a monument do you stay or run?

In PVE, there is very little Risk when you remove decay.  When you remove theft.  When you provide a ton of thank you gifts.  When you allow Mods to come help players with their builds.  When you have free resources in a Rec Center.  Risk is the driving element in a Survival Game and Rust is a Survival Game.  Pure has no Risk which is why people constantly farm, Monuments, Brad, Karen and/or Oil.  It is the only place you can get a little Risk and after doing it a couple of times even that loses its luster and people will stop playing. Bringing back decay means there is now a risk to building to big or upgrading.  Bringing back trespassing and theft means I have to think about what I'm doing instead of just gunning into a guarded monument or leaving something unlocked.

Conclusion: At the end of the day Pure offers little long-term engaging gameplay because there is little to no risk.  It provides a horrible entry point to Rust because it fails to reinforce the key element of the game Risk.  Mods have been forced into a policing entity focusing on limiting risk instead of focusing on onboarding new players.  These decisions have resulted in Pure being indistinguishable from other PVE servers and even other EZ servers.

[BigDave]

On 1/19/2024 at 8:13 AM, InfernalJustice said:

Okay getting back on topic.  There are three reasons why a true Vanilla PVE Experience would be good for Death and EZ as a whole. 

1) A Pure Vanilla version is significantly different than what is currently offered on the EZ other servers and positions you in a different category when creating a unique identity from other people hosting Rust servers.  If people want a more protected version of Rust, you have other servers that can offer that currently.  In other words, EZ's offerings only provide small variations in their servers.  Going full Vanilla would separate it from its competitors and provide a truly different experience.  This means bring back standard Decay. Allow for people to trespass and steal. Keep the no PVE damage to players and builds.

2) Mods could spend their time onboarding new players as opposed to policing stolen goods.  They could get out of policing and focus on the service side of their volunteer jobs.  This would allow them to get to know everyone on the server by explaining how Rust is designed.  As a new player I had no idea what a monument was, or how puzzles were solved.  It would have been really helpful to have a Mod help with this as opposed to the policing role they have right now.  

3) My final point is focused on game design.  I have been an avid gamer of all types of games (PC, Board, and Card) for decades and I've learned that every game has an underlying element that makes it entertaining and engaging. Rust at its core is a game designed on Risk and Reward.  In PVP the Risk and Reward is often time dictated by your ability in PVP combat.  Can I farm one more node or tree without getting killed by another player?  Or when you hear footsteps in a monument do you stay or run?

In PVE, there is very little Risk when you remove decay.  When you remove theft.  When you provide a ton of thank you gifts.  When you allow Mods to come help players with their builds.  When you have free resources in a Rec Center.  Risk is the driving element in a Survival Game and Rust is a Survival Game.  Pure has no Risk which is why people constantly farm, Monuments, Brad, Karen and/or Oil.  It is the only place you can get a little Risk and after doing it a couple of times even that loses its luster and people will stop playing. Bringing back decay means there is now a risk to building to big or upgrading.  Bringing back trespassing and theft means I have to think about what I'm doing instead of just gunning into a guarded monument or leaving something unlocked.

Conclusion: At the end of the day Pure offers little long-term engaging gameplay because there is little to no risk.  It provides a horrible entry point to Rust because it fails to reinforce the key element of the game Risk.  Mods have been forced into a policing entity focusing on limiting risk instead of focusing on onboarding new players.  These decisions have resulted in Pure being indistinguishable from other PVE servers and even other EZ servers.

Vanilla Rust is, at its core, PvP. When you remove PvP then it's not going to be the same game, period, and it's going to appeal to a different style of gamer.

When you remove PvP and raiding, you don't just remove risk, you also remove consequences. It's some of the consequences that are artificially restored with admin enforcing the rules determined by the server owner. 

What draws people to a game and keeps them interested is not the same for everyone. If risk alone was the deciding factor then there wouldn't be PvE servers at all would there?

You stated your own experience with gaming (n=1) and have assumed the same motivation for everyone else. There is a raft of published literature on the study of gamer psychology.  Just look at Bartle taxonomy of player types, it serves to discredit the notion that because you find a particular aspect important then everyone else does too. According to that study, stealing would appeal to "killers" but would be antithetical to "socializers". PvE itself would be more appealealing to "socializers", the majority of "killers" drawn to PvP, so the change you want would likely be less appealing to the majority, if my assumptions are accurate.