stroiger

Looking at the last wipes, that wasn't the case, at least for Pure EU. Just because something "used to" be this or that doesn't mean it will going forward - Facebook used to be the biggest social media platform, Snapchat used to be big too. Changes not welcomed by a big margin of users decreased popularity and rightfully so. And a lot of support FOR decay doesn't change the fact that a large portion of players was against it too (around 80 votes iirc) @Death At first it sounded like your vision for Pure was always to "purify" it at some point, that decay therefore was something long coming, not a rushed desicion. Then when the polls were opened it was never stated by you or anyone else HOW decay would be implemented, would it be modified ? 50% ? normal decay? A lot of people that spoke out FOR decay specifically said that while they wouldn't mind decay, they wouldn't IF the decay rate would be decreased. Now after we know that there's a split to Pure+ and Pure it seems like your vision wasn't to make the server go back to its vanilla roots at all - as Pure+ has features like portable recyclers, airdrops, removal tools and so on. How is that in line with your wish for how Pure would be developing since 2017 that you explained when you opened the voting on decay? It seems like monetization was the reason in the end, as we can see with the Pure+ Servers store perks and store items. Which in itself is more than reasonable since the servers don't run on good vibes and love - but the way it's been communicated is different and leaves a bitter taste. Now - in my opinion at least - a portion of the playerbase (wether it'll be half or more) will shift to Pure+, mostly those who don't mind spending money, or have spent money on RustEZ before (members and VIPs) on amenities or QoL stuff or start of wipe perks like airdrops, leaving more or most of casual players (which still make out a huge part of the community) on Pure, partly for the decay and partly for its vanilla origins since you can't "buy" your way to accelerate your start of wipe (wether it be at the actual force wipe or whenever these players decide to join). Give that some time, a couple months or so, and when the Pure server will lose it's popularity people will look over to Pure+ solely for the bigger playerbase by then - or maybe because some people and groups who used to play together, friends who've been made along the way and so on, will have been split up since some prefer Pure+ and some the normal Pure playstyle - and at that point I don't think it would be worth it to keep running the normal Pure servers for you (which I and many others wouldn't want to happen ofc). And @SpeedJourney I think your point about the servers listing makes sense, community servers gain more attention compared to modded ones when it comes to PvE. Originally after Facepunch made changes last year and most of the Pure item stores were unobtainable on the Pure servers due to that, Death said that they removed those very items not to lose their possibility to list Pure under the community tag, now that doesn't matter anymore I guess. That's just my 2 cents, but this all seems very rushed and the reasoning doesn't seem to be anymore connected to server performance or anything tied to decay, especially since your own staff members are now hinting on normal Pure getting decay too at some point. Disclaimer: my intent is not to criticize the desicions for no reason, I try to put myself in the shoes of you, Death, as well as the players and I wouldn't take time to give feedback if this server wouldn't mean this much to me.

Idk about that Speed , you forgot 2 things: At the start of this wipe on EU Pure when people discussed wether or not upkeep is already enabled you said, and I quote because I remember it and I was there " PLEASE NO I have plan to build a big base this wipe" You are an absolute exception not an average player dude. You have extreme amounts of time, you are widely known for "collecting" just for the sake of collecting (remember when you collected helis ? when you collected cars and got mad they were taken away by admins?) also you pretty much build something big and block-shaped every wipe that you play. Sorry but again, this update would BARELY if at all affect you, and it's a tad bit hypocritical saying it will moderate big bases if you're the one to cramp like 30 helis, 10 cars and 5 bikes + farm inside a giant purple shipping container block base. (This is EXAGGERATED for the sake of the argument, but I'm sure those who have been on EU Pure for a while now can confirm .... No hard feelings Speedy, just my 2 cents

How do you generalize that its "never gonna be a daily grind" ? Maybe for you ? Maybe not for others. It ALL depends what said person is building, or wants to build - as people like R1G said it does restrict imagination. Just because you or others have heaps of time to make a farm base, make teas, gather diesel and wait until GE isn't occupied doesn't mean others do. And yes I know "just buy" from other players" is a possibility, but again what if people want some sense of accomplishment and don't want to buy their stuff from these hoarding and collecting players just to be able to come back to their base a week from there when life gets in the way of coming back earlier ? Again it ALL depends on the persons time, playstyle and willingness to commit - but this change is a step into forcing people to the same principle of commitment time wise as PVP, just with the difference of not being able to raid stuff. It just sounds like the whole conversation is coming from long time/ veteran players just not minding upkeep and forgetting that at the core, the main portion of players from Pure servers just want a couple of hours per day/week to hang out, build something cool, talk to some people, do their own thing however they want to and not worry about decay. And these twig mansions will not poof just like that - they might become less frequent but I don't understand how everyone here fails to understand just HOW LITTLE wood it takes to maintain lets just say a big 30x30 footprint made of twig. Everyone who farmed 1 tree extra at the start of their servers journey will have upkeep for weeks. WEEKS. Again a reminder - we are NOT talking about WOOD but TWIG. You can shutdown and bock a whole grid with twig and if the person spent even just 15 min farming wood with a randomly found metal hatchet they will have TWIG upkeep for WEEKS - ofc until that point the 10 day decay will kick in for inactivity, but that still won't change the big twig bases, it rather ENCOURAGES them, why farm 50k stone for your big farm base with your 2 hours of free time you have after work if you can just farm 5k wood and have 10 days of upkeep for your twig monstrosity ? Not trying to sound mean, just making sure we're all on the same page. And let's be honest, the majority of casual players will not bother having admins help them with figuring out and setting up automation for TC upkeep, they will just quit the server and either join A) one without upkeep or B) one with increased gather rates like 2x, 3x and so on. And thats a big if, I don't think that the admins who are already barely online on the server will have the time babysitting new or casual players with making sure they have an efficient way of upkeeping their base. And thats fair. Yes I know for many of us who regularly play this server and have sunken in quite some time in not only Rust but also specifically the RustEZ servers, upkeep will have less of an impact on, but look at the newly implemented combat log - theres. always. the. same. people. doing. events. on. repeat. do they care about upkeep? Proooobably not, sure, however these guys, without judging their personal life situations (as my own allows for similar free time spent on video games), are spending 3, 4 or even 5 times the amount of time on this server as the average player casually having fun on this server in their free time. I also don't understand the differenciation of "theres build servers and servers meant to play the game on" - I think its in within the liberty of each player to decide and experience what the server is "meant for" in their eyes. If they're here to build something cool, they use the server for that. If they want to experiment with different monuments they can't do or don't get to do on PVP servers - then thats what they're entitled to do. Saying basically this server shouldn't be used to just build cool stuff on but rather to "play the game on" seems a little short sighted with respect to players with - well just different playstyles ? And the solo players ending up with tons of boxes full to the brim with comps having no need for those and the ones with 6 heli towers having no need for those - thats a WHOLE different problem I would say and says more about the demographic of the pure servers attracting these kinds of people, mega hoarding stuff and never ever ever ever letting anyone else take brad/karen/oil/ whatever else high tier monument - and because of that upkeep is a good thing? These people are able to do all that because servers are barely moderated. Because camping monuments is super loosely enforced or ever tracked (except for the websites new combat log tool which for some reason doesn't seperate events for different regions and therefore is pretty useless in itself especially since it only shows events for 24 hours.... why not for the whole month ? or a week? to find out who does all the high tier events on repeat? but even then - 2 days ago there was a guy, I'm not sure if it was Elysium or Survival, who did 18 events. 18 . Thats, sorry to say it like that, just not normal anymore. He basically took control of brad and karen for the entirety of "wake" hours of that server, for no other reason other than being able to do so and wanting to ahve more and more and more of the best loot. And these guys will be EXACTLY the ones who will not bat an eye about upkeep because they just pump in so many hours, do the high tier monuments (for the sake of the argument the ones spawning diesel to run HQM/ Stone Quarry or GE) on repeat that it just doesn't matter to them. They might end up with a couple boxes of stone or frags less at the end of the month yea sure, but thats about it. The average player having 2-4 hours a week, maybe an hour or 2 a day on the high end being excited to build something he wasn't able to on any other server (PVP for example) while also having a great community to interact with ? They'll just quit. At latest when they come back to their base being gone due to decay because they didn't have any more time left that week or energy or drive/ desire to farm up upkeep. Sorry but thats just whats gonna happen. Looking at battlemetrics and past wipes I've played there are people who regularly put in 12-16 hours for weeks on end after wipe. They're the ones the average players will have to buy from. (diesel or directly ressources because outpost prices suck lets be honest). They're the ones being least affected by enabling upkeep because they're the ones spending enourmous amounts of time on the server. They also, in no way, make up the majority of the playerbase, we should keep that in mind. And they're the ones if we're being honest, at least on my server, who get bored or for whichever reason (like maybe as you've said for example just having tons and tons and tons of extra ressources laying around) start building ginormous, and I mean highly out of proportion bases for no other reason than either having the biggest accumulation of player vending machines, therefore loot, or just the biggest cube-looking with a metric f-ton of christmas-lights and 10.000 extra unnecessary decoration entities just for the sake of having the most flashy looking thing that the server struggles to load - containing mega home and they're also the ones who will build (like you've said) 6 towers just for the sake of being the only person that will ever even hear touch or see the patrol helicoptor upon respawning just for the sole reason that they can, because nobody cares enough or wants to speak up, or nothing is being done moderation/ admin-wise. Do not cater your desicions based on the players not affected by this change, make the desicion based on those it might/ will affect (coming from someone who will NOT be affected). Don't forget that the sense of community on RustEZ comes from fresh faces joining us every and each wipe and making friends beyond those 30 days that we keep playing with for more wipes to come - this might take a nose dive if we give these people another thing to do or keep track of instead of enjoying the game, or force these people to play a certain way to be able to maintain their activities and fun on this server for longer periods of time - retaining customers is harder than acquiring new ones, and this goes for this server too. They might poke inside this server for a bit, but I'm sure that the prospect of upkeep will scare of those with less time at hands sooner rather than later.

To pick up on "the only rules that should be enforced with warnings are located on the rules list." - I remember a wipe from last year where I set up to build a big Roleplay focused car dealership. Not your normal put a car in a 2x2 space with a vending machine deal but a face to face selling business with player interactions, server advertisement, taking pictures with "happy customers" who bought, configuration and extra goodies when buying a car from me, it was all named "Torrettos Body Shop". We even met someone roleplay as a taxi service who we "collabed" with. Great wipe, awesome interactions, no harm done. I sold them live , and for that I had a mailbox for people to leave notes when they wish to buy a car, and I would respond almost immediately, for the duration of the car shop I was online for 16 hours per DAY, so everyone who did want a car, got a car. Now at the time, there was no written rule and there still isn't as you pointed out (which theoretically is true but in reality isn't, see sunamunas response to you, I can confirm her experience on the EU Pure server since I play on that server too, there ARE several rules being enforced, some less some more seriously that aren't written down anywhere.) about car limits - as long as you're not being a douche about hoarding them for personal use. At some point a player which I won't name started started being vocal about me "hoarding them" after I refused to sell him more cars after already selling him 3, so other players would get a chance at getting one too, while his "collection" of I don't remember, 12? 14 ? cars (that he had for the sole purpose of collecting not using them as a solo player, which greatly reduces the available cars for others as there is a set amount of cars being spawned for the map, 60 to be precise) got decimated down to 2 by an admin. He was given notice that he had too many cars. Naturally players started asking what the rules in that case were - are there limits for cars ? if so how many? and some staff members in discord as well as on the server itself said "2 cars per team, no hoarding them, if you sell them you need the shops to be automated so players can buy them at any time without your presence being needed". I understood, but I also never had an admin approach me (even though several visited my base already and knew about how many cars I was selling) about me not having my car shop automated (since I was online pretty much ALWAYS for the duration of the shop) or stashing too many to sell. A day later I came online and most of my cars are gone, removed by an admin. No prior notice, no "warning", no being approached beforehand, which contradicts you saying that normally, depending on how serious the offense/case is, depending on reports submitted to staff enforcement only happens after prior warning or approaching the players in question before any interference or removing objects/buildings. And that "hard limits don't exist" seems also not to be the case as you can see, nor does the rulebook seem to be the same on all 13 servers BEYOND the ones everyone can read up as you've attached. All I'm trying to say is there seems to be a discrepancy of what is being enforced and how serious (or if at all), depending on server, case, or even admin who takes on the matter. I would greatly appreciate it if you could look into this, seeing that you didn't know about such differences regarding rules occuring on the different Pure servers. This would impact the decision of players regarding the vote on upkeep - server performance related rules and issues, or rules regarding "hard limits" for objects like wind turbines would be weighed differently depending on wether or not these rules ultimately exist and are being enforced or are subject to individual staff members/ admins handling them differently depending on the specific case and/or server region. Thank you.

I've come to understand that a big part that plays a role in why server performance decreases isn't just the size of bases but also the amount of entities it contains. Think about the tons and tons of lighting, (hundreds of meters in string lights, hundreds of industrial lights, tons of decorational items and so on) industrial components etc. A big base containing a couple dozen boxes and a few lets say sofas, shelves and lockers won't nearly have as much of an impact as a small 4x4x4 containing lights on every wall, dozens of garlands on every door frame, red and blue siren lights being spammed on the roof for no reason at all, and a bunch of wind turbines (because, unless someone brings it to the server admins attention that someone has more turbines than allowed nobodys checking that from my personal experience) tons of automated objects and literally 50+ vending machines full to the brim on the outside. Another thing is building materials - with enabled upkeep huge twig bases that barely need upkeep will still be a thing - negatively affecting performance much more than a similar wood/stone/sheet metal upgraded one. And the easy solution to that is to reduce decay time for inactivity - theres dozens of people joining the server at the start, laying down a giant foundation for very ambitious sized bases and then never coming back on - and with 10 days of inactivity protection from decay thats a 3rd of the whole wipe where nobody can do anything about that or the hit this maps area takes in terms of performance. The whole reason why it was changed to 10 instead of the prior 7 days was to give everyone, wether its a student or someone who works full time or has other obligations and for that reason doesn't have unlimited time to play but still wants to have a fun and enjoyable experience, the option to play and build for a bit, then come back a couple days later and continue where they left things without having to worry that it will be gone (and enabling upkeep doubles down on that only that now their base will be gone after a day or two unless they spend their limited time to farm up ressources, which I underestand is easy to do on PvE servers but it still takes time that would be otherwise spent on actually playing and chatting with others and enjoying the game instead of making it feel like a chore). Enabling upkeep destroys the sole purpose behind that change and the whole reason why many players value this server so much over others and comes back every wipe. When looking at peoples reasoning for why they left PVP servers to join RustEZ or left other PvE servers it's the fact that: - PVP servers feel like "competing with ""unemployed people"" or those still in school who have unlimited time to play - can't farm upkeep? your time invested will be wiped out either by being offlined or the base decaying itself - PVP servers feel like a chore, build anything decently sized, have fun spending an hour or more farming up to maintain it - can't be online for a day or two? same result - your time invested will be wiped clean and your base will decay - most PvE servers have upkeep enabled, which makes RustEZ so special - it's a vanilla gather rate serverwithout upkeep, no 2x, 3x or 10x one where the increased gather rate compensates for the fact that you have to farm up a lot of ressources to maintain your base ---> having upkeep on a vanilla gather rate server just brings the downsides without balancing it out - the size of the community ! it's one of the bigger (non-modded) PvE servers in terms of playerbase and I don't see the change do anything more than drive away potential new players, casual or "weekend" players or keep existing ones from coming back after having their base decayed A few underlying topics that deserve more attention when asking about wether or not upkeep should be implented are: 1.) which types of players have the most impact on the server performance ---> it's not the average Joe's hopping on for a weekend it's the people who've played for a long time on the server and keep coming back to build gigantic pyramides, huge farm bases, walling off big chunks of the map, putting in 16 hour days for the majority of the first week(s) until they have a crazy amount of vending machines, giant farm bases to sell hundreds of teas and thousands of items in the shortest possible time after the server wiped, or those being in the biggest groups therefore filling a small part of the map with the most entities since they live together in a certain area which makes the entity density in those areas the reason for performance hits (in those areas but also for the average performance of the server itself) 2.) moderation of server rules regarding performance ---> from personal experience I can say that while we do have 2 new amazing admins (and many existing ones) on EU Pure, the nature of volunteering as an admin comes with it's own challenges namely not having the time of overseeing everything thats going on or going wrong in a timely manner. these people have their own lifes, obligations and can't be there every day ofc BUT unfortunately it seems that current or recent (talking about recent few wipes) admin activity is not really covering the needs of moderation on this server size/pop and therefore active enforcement of rules like max. of 4 wind turbines for example - there's been cases of people putting up 12 or more, and sometimes people speak up and admins take a look, sometimes it gets lost along the process and nothing happens for one or another reason, but the fact is that it takes maybe 5 minutes for an admin to get a rough overview by flying over the map to see blatant or obvious cases of people disregarding that rule - from personal experience I can say theres multiple cases like that every single wipe I've played, and it isn't always being solved, sometimes it just stays that way until the server wipes ---> same with unresonable/ excessive usage of lighting, for example people putting up 100 siren lights on top of their roofs which tanks FPS in that area significantly - it takes a quick fly around the map to find extreme cases of such and a quick note ingame to address the player in question ---> unfortunately it feels like these rules are being enforced in a reactive rather than proactive way, unless someone stumbles across such buildings/areas and speaks up in discord (since realistically except for the first 1-3 days of wipe there are rarely admins online and if so rarely for very long unless those admins have projects of their own they tend to e.g. building for events or preparing for such) not much is gonna happen on its own, and even if someone addresses said matters in discord its oftentimes overlooked, which I don't blame on the admins, I understand stuff gets lost with the many many enquiries being admitted to the general or help channel in discord on a daily bases for matters concerning all kinds of RustEZ servers and regions 3.) what rules or measures can be put in to place for giant twig bases degrading server performance early in to the wipe ? ---> everyone who played sometime around wipe and the following days knows the situation where huge ambitious projects are being started with giant twig foundations and shells being built for these people to never come back online, while the decay time that was changed last year from 7 to now 10 days locks these buildings in to place for a 3rd of the whole wipe - this time frame is way too long and enabling upkeep will barely counter that considering you can farm up a tc full of wood in 10 minutes and secure your upkeep for your giant twig frame of a base for the remainder of the wipe ---> maybe going back to 7 days or implementing a measure concerning a different, shorter time frame for twig decay is an option? and keeping the time for decay for anything upgraded to wood or even stone and above the same? a big base out of twig can be maintained for 30 days with a single TC full of wood, a same sized base out of stone with a stone filled TC only for a day or two (exemplary for the sake of the argument, ofc it depends on the actual size and amount of building blocks and so on) To summarize, enabling upkeep, in my opinion, mostly affects "casual" or average players which make the majority of the servers population, not the few putting in hundreds of hours every month who will barely be affected by the upkeep(rushing progression the first couple of days by putting in exorbitant hours after wipe), therefore driving away new players, putting off existing or new players from coming back or the latter ones with limited time to spend on the game which would negatively impact the servers population and maybe even hinder growth or just maintaining the existing player base while not addressing issues or matters that are equally contributing to performance degradation that can be explored before ultimately changing such a fundamental aspect of the Pure servers. DISCLAIMER for people who want to bring individual hardware or free time on hand in to the discussion of this topic: This is coming from someone who has a high-end system (RYZEN 9800 X3D, 32 GB RAM, RTX 4090) and more than enough time on hand to sink in to the game. HOWEVER up until the end of last year I was playing on a low-end system myself and was experiencing the same performance issues being brought up by other players in this discussion so I understand their point-of-view equally as well. Therefore all arguments and points made by me are not made out of self-interest, since my situation fortunately allows me to not be affected (neither server performance wise or from the point of having to spend time farming for upkeep) nearly as much by enabling upkeep as the average RustEZ Pure player. Cheers!

Hey there Admins/staff of EU Pure, fellow german EU Pure player here. While it IS true that "Digga" means "bro" in german slang, it is quite difficult making a typo with said word, as the letter "d" is quite far away from the letter "n" which leads to a racial slur. A typo would typically mean typing "F" or "S" instead of "D", as those are the adjacent close by letters on a german QWERTZ layout keyboard. To mistype "digga" for the n-word, one would have to "mistype" or miss 4 more letters on the right of "D" and then slip to the row below to "N". Unless his fingers are 7cm wide or his cat has a famous german moustache and mistyped it for him, it is highly unlikely that this was a genuine typo. It is however, as seen multiple times in these ban appeals, more likely that said person felt safe in a private/team chat conversation therefore not considering the possibility of admins being able to read/access anything other than global chat. Just my 2 cents. Kind regards, stroiger