pure Admin Logs & Rules

[Babylon]

Hi, I am a little bit concerned about the rules of the PvE Pure server.

Logs, evidence etc.

So for starters, I think it's good to say that i'm a very curious guy.
I can't help it, but to open a container if I see one in the wild, it may be a furnace, a little box or maybe a sleeping bag. I just can't help myself NOT to open it, and technically this is against the rules.
- I obviously don't loot anything, if there is stuff in it, just curious to see if there would be anything and have a little innocent look. I know this is bad habits.
So, as a curious guy, I read a few ban appeals/bans, and saw that you guys provided evidence when banning players. This is very good practice and I support it.
However, when I saw the evidence, I became a wee bit skeptical.
This is what I saw:

Now, I have "censored/blocked out" some of the information, basically just personal identifiers as I don't think this individual deserves more to be posted about them than necessary. 

Now, this shows me, a new player, that all you can really see is if someone has opened the container, and not taken items from it.
By this, you wouldn't know if the individual has taken items from it, of course if there were items in it and they're the only person looting it recently, I mean, at that point it's obvious.

But would I get warned, or even banned if I opened a container in the wild and that specific container had a player report on it?
Would it be taken into account that I could've just passed by it, had a look and didn't take anything and went on with my day?

To be clear; I am talking about containers in the wild, NOT containers in bases etc.
For me this is a double-edged sword, they shouldn't really have a container in the wild without something like a lock protecting it. (my opinion ofc)
- Like what do you expect having an unsupervised container out in the open? 
And I probably shouldn't even look..

Regardless of you guy's answers to my topic here, I will do better at not having a look. But it is inviting.

I am not asking for a rule change, I know it may come across this way, but I think there could be more done to educate new and old players about what admins can see/view, to prevent unjust warnings and/or bans. However this is not for me to put together, nor decide if there even is something to be done about it. I am but here letting you guys know, that I as a player could have some concerns about wildlife containers. Maybe you CAN see what players specifically loot in a container, the fuck do I know. 
To be honest, it is somewhat disruptive of my personal experience / gameplay of the server, having to always be concerned about not innocently looking into a container. There's A LOT of open containers.
Of course not so disruptive that I'd stop playing. 
And I think this is fair for me to say, even though, I am aware that there might not be much you are able to do.

I believe even in real world, some countries have laws where as, if you start your car, go inside your house and let it heat up for ice to melt etc. and it gets stolen during that, it is YOUR fault, because doing that would be seen as inviting someone to do it. Can't exactly say what country I heard this about, might even be my own country. /shrug
Or in other words, incentivize others to steal your stuff because of the easy opportunity is there.

Not justifying taking others stuff, i'd personally NOT do that, however I think it's somewhat relevant.

The Rules

I couldn't find much about the rules on the forums/website, nothing that elaborated on them atleast.
On the FAQ, we're told to go to in-game to see the connections tab;

Now, this is basically the /rules in game... Which, there is an announcement which says something along the lines of "Type /rules in chat to see a summary of the rules!".
Where are the rules elaborated on? I have been unable to find it, and personally, i'd love to go more in-depth with them so I know my place.
I am aware of common sense, and that sense should build on-top of individual lines of rules written here. However I'd love some more in-depth rules.
I also saw a rule in-game about transporting via water ways, and I honestly have no clue what that means. Probably not breaking it cause i'm not by any water, but take this as an example as to elaborating on it, on a place like the forums would be suffice.
- In regards to this, I haven't joined the Discord, and I don't think I will until i'd jump into voice chat with someone from RustEZ. Personally don't see much of a reason other than using voice with someone, when there's a perfectly fine & working forum for written communication. So, if there's elaborated rules on there, I am rendered unaware of them!

 

I know, I know, long thread! Boo! Didn't read !!!
Here's a potato, now shush ya mush.  

In all seriousness, thanks for reading.

[TiffDust]

reading ban reports and #help in discord (and generally just playing and reading chat) is a great way to learn rules haha! I do feel concerned over wild containers, who, why and what could be in them that meant they weren't in a base and unloved like that? I've yet to see a wild container...

generally admins say if it's not yours don't touch it, if you didn't put it down (it's not yours.) The lovely admins generally lock up if they find things unsecured (TC, boxes, windows) but they aren't going to find all the unsecured 100% of the time (Scourge and survival? have permissions and you'd be blocked by the TC.)  Ultimately it's up to the player to secure entries and containers.
If you play enough on RustEZ there's absolutely no point in looking into wild containers because you have tons of stuff!  Ultimately doing so, it would be in the log and the owner can report missing items. Regardless of where a container (or anything) is, it isn't yours but you took it anyway is looting.

I know there's opinions on more elaboration of rules but it says No raiding, griefing or looting of any kind.
Can't honestly be more clear than that.

if ever you spot a wild container, tell an admin and i'm sure they'll sort it out.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, TiffDust said:

reading ban reports and #help in discord (and generally just playing and reading chat) is a great way to learn rules haha! I do feel concerned over wild containers, who, why and what could be in them that meant they weren't in a base and unloved like that? I've yet to see a wild container...

generally admins say if it's not yours don't touch it, if you didn't put it down (it's not yours.) The lovely admins generally lock up if they find things unsecured (TC, boxes, windows) but they aren't going to find all the unsecured 100% of the time (Scourge and survival? have permissions and you'd be blocked by the TC.)  Ultimately it's up to the player to secure entries and containers.
If you play enough on RustEZ there's absolutely no point in looking into wild containers because you have tons of stuff!  Ultimately doing so, it would be in the log and the owner can report missing items. Regardless of where a container (or anything) is, it isn't yours but you took it anyway is looting.

I know there's opinions on more elaboration of rules but it says No raiding, griefing or looting of any kind.
Can't honestly be more clear than that.

if ever you spot a wild container, tell an admin and i'm sure they'll sort it out.

I disagree, I have seen numerous containers that weren't locked, as mentioned in my original post, these ranges from unsecured big furnaces, to small boxes.

As I tried to elaborate in my post, I am NOT concerned about taking stuff from others, I am not doing that. The thing is, I am curious so I open these containers. Whether it's a Furnace, a small box, etc!

As I also mentioned in my post, I am new to the server, so I am unaware of how the admins are actually treating this rule, whether it's "oh you opened this, now you're banned, bye bye" or "Hey buddy, try not to do this, please". I have no clue how it's being treated, but if it's aggressively treated, I do think there is numerous things that could be done to either educate members/players/customers of the community, that by opening a box, could potentially get your ass banned if you were to be so unlucky.

 

And to put further more on your statement:

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I know there's opinions on more elaboration of rules but it says No raiding, griefing or looting of any kind.

This is inevitably false, as if they can only see who has opened the container, and not see specifically looted items, just simply by opening a container that would then be defined as looting. Does an irregular/new-coming player know this? I don't think so, and that is why I am giving constructive criticism on this.
If you are out and about, long day at school/work, just want to chill on the couch/massive gaming station, wife is screaming etc. kids in bed, it would be so disruptive in the way that an admin suddenly contacts you, meanwhile you are just trying to enjoy the game, being inconvenienced by an unnecessary administrative encounter, which you'd have no clue about and possibly get banned and/or warned for something you didn't even know was a thing. Because hey, you legitimately didn't take anything, but you opened the container.

That is why, my suggestion is to do more to educate people, I am aware there's not much you can do from a plugin/server standpoint, but to educate through announcements etc. can go a long way, reforming the specific rule can also go a very long way as that's probably what most players read.

A ruleset can be reformed in many ways, by adding or removing certain words and/or making it simpler to understand, can make it look good, meanwhile providing enough information for players to accept the rules as they are.

However, I do think reforming a ruleset for it would be a drastic change, hence why I am leaning towards changing and/or adding announcements.

This is just my ideas though, so that from it what you will.

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reading ban reports and #help in discord

As stated in my original post, I do not wish to join the Discord as of yet, since there's a perfectly fine & working written communication pipeline in place for me to make use of, the forums. If I were to join someone from RustEZ, on voice, then I would join the Discord. Otherwise, I do not see the reason.

 

Quote

Can't honestly be more clear than that.

It is not that I want it to be clearer, the rules are perfectly fine for me and I understand them. However, when I am told these rules that I see in-game & in the connection tab, is a summary I go on to look for the up-to-date & polished ruleset, so I can stay within the rules.
 

Quote

if ever you spot a wild container, tell an admin and i'm sure they'll sort it out.

I will NOT do this, it is NOT my duty and it is NOT something for me, a player, to even worry about. This would impose a major inconvenience to my gameplay, immersion and experience. I do not wish to interact and/or see admins make use of their powers. I'd like to immerse my self into an imaginary role, on the server.

 

Remember, I posted this in the Feedback section, I don't call for change, I am stating that there could be a few things polished here and there, and this is what I have experienced / seen on the server thus far. I have provided my own ideas as to how it could be polished, and I think I am being fair. If not, remember that this is over text, text doesn't show emotions.

[rubiks-q-bert]

6 hours ago, Babylon said:

Where are the rules elaborated on? I have been unable to find it, and personally, i'd love to go more in-depth with them so I know my place.

Preach. I've been trying to get someone to do that since back in June. The rules desperately need updating, in depth defining, and flat out, some rules need to be added. But I was basically told they are fine. So, good luck.

[TiffDust]

4 hours ago, Babylon said:

I will NOT do this, it is NOT my duty and it is NOT something for me, a player, to even worry about. This would impose a major inconvenience to my gameplay, immersion and experience. I do not wish to interact and/or see admins make use of their powers. I'd like to immerse my self into an imaginary role, on the server.

I disagree, playing on RustEz you become part of the community and helping other players becomes part of the gameplay... of course you don't have to report a mysterious box but then you also don't need to open it.

You'd like clearer rules but then tons of people join RustEZ servers that have *no killing, no looting* in the server title and they still ask if there's pvp and looting.
Newbies tend to be followed, admins can check your inventory even if they can't see in/outs of boxes. You don't get banned from opening a box or furnace... if it's all too tempting go to Scourge.   welcome to the server

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, TiffDust said:

I disagree, playing on RustEz you become part of the community and helping other players becomes part of the gameplay... of course you don't have to report a mysterious box but then you also don't need to open it.

That is exactly what I am saying.
I am saying that, people should be informed to NOT open boxes. For me looting is receiving and/or making a transaction with a container, it is NOT opening it. This is what i'd suggest making clearer when playing on the server.

2 hours ago, TiffDust said:

You'd like clearer rules but then tons of people join RustEZ servers that have *no killing, no looting* in the server title and they still ask if there's pvp and looting.
Newbies tend to be followed, admins can check your inventory even if they can't see in/outs of boxes. You don't get banned from opening a box or furnace... if it's all too tempting go to Scourge.   welcome to the server

Yeah, people tend to mindlessly connect to servers, and then get educated through interaction with the server. Hence why I am suggesting to do a little bit more, maybe reform something, perhaps change a thing here and/or there.  
You can't be sure every newbie gets followed by an admin, I didn't even get greeted when I first joined the server.

And thank you for answering one of my questions about how harsh it is being treated, as I said in my original post, I have no idea about the enforcement of this rule, or how in-depth it actually goes. I think it's unfair for an unbeknownst player to be randomly greeted by an Admin, and possibly broken out of their immersion, due to something as silly as opening a random box in the forest.

It is tempting to open the random containers, and I will probably continue to do so, despite trying not to. But, you are telling me, I become part of the community by playing on this server, yet you are banishing me to a "Scourge" server? Whatever that means, I don't know, but I have found my home server, and I'll provide feedback to it as I go.
As I said in my original thread, this is nothing i'd stop playing for. It is not a big deal to me.  

I love the server so far, and I am genuinely having fun. I'd like to continue the same trend. As I said in my second post, this is but feedback. I don't think you should tell players to go elsewhere, for providing such.

 

With peace and love ,
Babylon

Edited September 7, 2021 by Babylon

[Aurora]

 A special screenshot, just for you. ♥ 

Joking aside,  if you play on Pure servers, at some point I'm sure you'll see admins  send general info about this and other topics in Global chat PSAs to educate players and  help players transition to our PvE community.  For the most part, it's basic stuff all new players will learn as they play.  On our modded servers this action (opening anything that doesn't belong to you) isn't possible, hence the earlier suggestion that you could try another server if you didn't like that particular aspect of playing on Pure. 

Hopefully the comments above answered your question  -- always feel free to post in the forums, on our Discord or in server chat if you have questions about the community and our servers.

GLHF!

[Jay_JWLH]

Okay, so I have been pondering over this post for a few days now and I understand where you are coming from.

I don't know if there are any particular guidelines that admins follow, or if getting action taken against you by certain admins will get you banned a lot more easily compared to others. I can only hope that there is some degree of consistency. There is however the ability to appeal decisions and report abusive admins, so they can't just do anything they like and there be no consequences to their actions. Other admins will be able to have a second opinion and overturn the decision to have you banned. I've even had a 3 hour ban overturned an hour later because I said chinhook due to it picking up on the part of the word "chin" as a racist term. I believe this has since been fixed, and the chat mod bot will be improved over time. I do think that peeking into peoples boxes is rude, but shouldn't warrant any serious trouble such as a warning or even a short term ban would be better.

I have also taken some time to read some of the ban postings as well. Although I do find them to be a bit harsh at times, they tend to be understandable. Some people just think that because they have been spending enough playing on the EZ servers that it will afford them for forgiveness or that their behavior is acceptable. Although it helps, it doesn't let you get away with murder. One person got a bit silly with their language when drunk and got banned for it. The tolerance for inappropriate behavior is enough to make the servers R13 certifiable (this game is for those 17 and up however, but there are those that are 13 yo who deal with plenty of wild behavior on other servers). Although I do have a bit of swearing, it is usually minor and contextual, but mostly kept to the minimum. I even replace many words with less serious words, like "F this" with "screw this". You DO have to be mindful of your behavior and how it effects others, otherwise you shouldn't be playing on these servers. If you are feeling angry towards other users because they did something wrong, the answer isn't to abuse them back. You need to look at other reasonable options like reporting it to admins for investigation as well as teaching those users the rules in a friendly way.

As for the whole logs and stealing thing, I am also guilty of this (not from actually stealing though). At the very beginning when I casually visited the server I visited the base of someone who invited me in to look at his wonderful farm of hemp. I mean... who doesn't like to show off their hard work a bit right? But a while later I arrived back on with a warning not to enter peoples bases without permission. I didn't take anything at all, and they offered me something from their person. Clearly someone must have reported me or read the logs without any context, as these days I visit peoples bases all the time and even sneak in if they leave a garage door open or forget to secure the place properly. It is like real life, you should at least be responsible enough to secure your stuff (which is why people put chain link fences around their furnaces). But I'm not going to go into your base and steal your stuff. Just secure your stuff so that you don't have to go through the hassle of reporting it in the first place and tempting innocent people, or new users who will abuse the rules off the bat. As for hidden satchels in the ground, just leave them alone. As for being invited into a friends in-game house, try to treat it like their real house and ask first. But again, Admins, please don't be heavy handed on if people look inside things that aren't theirs.

[rubiks-q-bert]

10 hours ago, Jay_JWLH said:

I don't know if there are any particular guidelines that admins follow, or if getting action taken against you by certain admins will get you banned a lot more easily compared to others. I can only hope that there is some degree of consistency. 

Yes, they have guidelines (supposed to anyway). Yes, some admins are quicker to ban. Lack of consistency is definitely a thing.

[Aurora]

On 9/12/2021 at 5:35 AM, Jay_JWLH said:

I don't know if there are any particular guidelines that admins follow, or if getting action taken against you by certain admins will get you banned a lot more easily compared to others. I can only hope that there is some degree of consistency.

Yes, all admins have admin policies and guidelines they follow

Sometimes you might see actions taken against one player and not another, but what you are not privy to is that player's history of behavior on RustEZ servers. An example: You might know a valid report was made against  Player A for stealing and "nothing happens" that you are aware. Yet Player B is banned for stealing. The difference?  Player A was issued an in-game warning for their actions as it was their first time breaking server rules (only Player A sees this warning, not all players on the server). Player B already had a visit from an admin about this rule, and an in-game warning had previously been issued for stealing, and the admin looking into the situation banned them  on the most recent occurrence (all players on the server would see the ban, but not the prior warnings issued to Player B in-game that ultimately resulted in a ban).

A little more info on the chain admins follow when taking formal actions on a plyer account can be found here, in our Server FAQ.

 

Hope that helps explain the process a bit for you!