Jump to content
SPLIFF

Banned, US Scourge - CHRI5 TH33 F41RY

Recommended Posts

I dispute this - if someone can have Trump2020 signs and. Blue Lives Matter flag then I get to counterpoint with ACAB. If I’m banned, then whoever created the Blue Lives Matter flag deserves to be banned too. 

Share this post


Link to post

I read the ban report earlier today and it did leave a bad taste in my mouth. Forgive me if this is not the proper place to post this, but it directly relates to this ban.

I have been reflecting since I read this ban report on differing opinions on political and related signage in-game, as well as whether or not punishment (i.e. banning) is necessary or required for such things, or if less severe routes should be taken (such as remove image from the sign and give warnings not outright bans for first offenses, etc.)

Regardless of my own political leanings, I think there should be a general rule or statement made about political signage in-game, and the punishment (as required), should be the same no matter what the sign says, if it infringes this rule. My original post with my position on political signage in-game can be viewed here at https://rustez.com/forums/topic/3405-signs/?tab=comments#comment-10973 .

The fact that this sign was singled out to receive a ban (even if only 3-days), as well as revealing who put the sign up, sets a really bad precedent in my opinion, unless the person who placed the sign was a repeat offender (i.e. continuing to place political-related signs or signs that go against the rules of the server after being warned).

In the original imgur post (https://i.imgur.com/pxExfQk.jpg) as taken by Stv) that alerted admins to this sign, nearby signs provide important context in which this ACAB sign was placed that I think have been ignored when dubbing this sign as being used to promote hate. Most of the other political-related other signs could be viewed as “hateful”, “hate speech”, etc., depending on your own personal political leanings.

Also, naming who put this sign up, and not the numerous other political-related signs that have been placed around the US Scourge map this wipe, potentially places a target on them for griefers or other tomfoolery.

In short, I would like to see more consistency in punishment for signs (if necessary), as well as more clearly delineated rules on what is acceptable signs in publicly viewable areas of the server. I would like to thank all of the admins for their dedication and to the servers and to the players. I know times are tough and it can often be very difficult to figure out the right way to approach things.

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks alexanightfire for articulating this so well. 
 

I put the sign up in response to all of the other signage mentioned above. Do you think a POC would feel comfortable seeing blue shirts matter flags and promotion for tr**p2020? I think not. This is a double standard and is setting a poor precedent by basically confirming that blue shirts matter on this server, and any opinions outside of that are “hateful.”  This “flag” is widely known to be anti-black, so your allowance of this image and not mine is clearly racially biased. 
 

I did not want to have to put this up, but it felt like the more images I saw like this on the server, the more it felt like I was playing with the KKK. 
 

I think your rules and guidelines need to be seriously reviewed, and any admins who feel like what I’ve done is “hatespeech” need to check their own white privilege before coming for me. 

Share this post


Link to post

As a whole, our community does not condone violence, bigotry, misrepresentation or politics for the simple fact of political bias. Everyone has their own views and should they challenge the views of others, they should respect retaliation.

Admins moderate to their discretion which can sometimes leave to this type of bias response. From my perspective, blue lives matter is not promoting hate, or a hate group. Your ACAB does, but again, this is my own persona bias. A good example of why politics should stay in the real world and not in a gaming community where we come to unwind and relax.

For the sake of correcting misinformation, blue lives matter is not an anti-black movement. It's a counter-movement to convict those who target officers, firefighters or EMTs with hate crimes. It doesn't matter your race, creed or religion, it's to protect civil workers from being killed from others biases.

If you truly felt the blue lives matter sign offended you, or may have offended others, you could have easily contacted an admin with your concerns, rather than protest with yet another political statement.

Please feel free to report any politically-forward imagery so we can have it removed.

Share this post


Link to post

Hi Death - I disagree with your defence of blue shirts matter - it is indeed a hate group generated as a response to the backlash of police killing countless unarmed black citizens. 
 

My sign is in direct response to the numerous signs that were posted  around the map. Maybe that wasn’t the correct response, so I’ve learned that lesson. 
 

So in response, I’d again like to appeal my ban, and report the blue shirts matter flag as racist imagery, as well as any politically motivated signs on the map. I whole-heartedly agree that political signage have no place in Rust, and request the banning of all other players who have posted such signs if my ban is not appealed. 

Share this post


Link to post

@CHRI5 TH33 F41RY Just to clarify, we're talking about the american flag with the blue stripe in the middle as depicted in this picture? https://i.imgur.com/pxExfQk.jpg

If so, this flag has nothing to do with blue lives matter. It's the thin blue line symbol, for america, used all around the world. We will not moderate signage that promote the duties of civil servants. I am in no way saying your concerns are invalid, but it would be unjust to punish a player for representing law enforcement.

I understand this flag is misused to represent BLM, but without verbiage stating motive it's just a harmless duty to law enforcement showing support.

 

Only the admin who invoked the ban can lift it. I am just here to help clarify our policies. They should be with you shortly.

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you for taking part in the appeals process but the original ban will not be lifted by myself prior to the 3 day term.  

As previously stated our we do not condone violence, bigotry, racism, sexism, hatred or derogatory statements to groups of people. As you return you will notice your BLM signs are still in place. They are political/political movement signs and there currently is no rules against them, just as no rules against other peoples political/political movement signs such as the  Biden, Kanye, Trump,  BLM, Thin blue line etc....

The issue came of your use of the ACAB slogan, which is used by the group "Skinheads", It is known to the general consensus as a violent hate group. And as such it was treated no differently than any other known symbols/sayings of hate. 

Share this post


Link to post

@Death I am one of those who was actively advocating the removal of the signs, and I still believe all of them should be removed... I also I do not agree with the ACAB sentiment, and actually find it to be in the same category as any other broad-reaching statement of hate towards a specific group of people... HOWEVER...

With the escalation happening as it did, with no response from anyone on the subject, I do not think it's fair to just start banning people out of the blue, even if it is just for a few days, without warning and no clear stance on the matter beforehand.

Perhaps we can, instead, use this moment to clarify yours and the admins stance on the matter of political and possibly inflammatory signs, and that if anything further like this were to occur, that a 3-day banning would be the result?

 

Edited by Sararainmaker
to clarify
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

This is ridiculous. The term “ACAB” is not an exclusive term used by skinheads. This term is readily used in opposition to police violence, police racism, and police brutality. 
 

The fact that you find my ACAB sign so hateful, yet so strongly stand in front of the blue shirts matter is really telling. This banning is racially motivated because of this. I’m really disappointed in the RustEz admins decision and when my ban is lifted I will no longer play on any US servers, and will stick to the actually neutral EU servers. 

Share this post


Link to post

@Sararainmaker It's hard not to be extremely biased, but "All cops are bastards" is the pure dentition of hate, it's an acronym that incites hate to a targeted group.

@CHRI5 TH33 F41RY ACAB is literally an anti-cop expression to insight hate on a targeted group. Thin blue line is an expression coined in the 1800s (which is what the blue line flag represents.)

As far as the ban goes, I'm siding with Sararain as no clear rules are indicated for signage. We will discuss internally and get this sorted as soon as possible. I am in no position to veto Spliff's decision but I will bring it up once we sort this mess out.

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, CHRI5 TH33 F41RY said:

This is ridiculous. The term “ACAB” is not an exclusive term used by skinheads. This term is readily used in opposition to police violence, police racism, and police brutality. 
 

The fact that you find my ACAB sign so hateful, yet so strongly stand in front of the blue shirts matter is really telling. This banning is racially motivated because of this. I’m really disappointed in the RustEz admins decision and when my ban is lifted I will no longer play on any US servers, and will stick to the actually neutral EU servers. 

Video Games aren't the place for political discourse. A great many people use them as their time to escape the realities of our world, Myself included.  I personally spend a great deal of my off-game time advocating BLM and actively educating people on conscious as well as subconscious racism... I come in here when I need to remove myself from that world for a while, to recharge. In order to maintain a comfortable environment where people want to be, NONE of these signs should have been allowed.

Edited by Sararainmaker
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Death said:

@Sararainmaker It's hard not to be extremely biased, but "All cops are bastards" is the pure dentition of hate, it's an acronym that incites hate to a targeted group.

@CHRI5 TH33 F41RY ACAB is literally an anti-cop expression to insight hate on a targeted group. Thin blue line is an expression coined in the 1800s (which is what the blue line flag represents.)

As far as the ban goes, I'm siding with Sararain as no clear rules are indicated for signage. We will discuss internally and get this sorted as soon as possible. I am in no position to veto Spliff's decision but I will bring it up once we sort this mess out.

Thank you for considering my words, @Death

Share this post


Link to post

Death, you know that the presence of the blue shirts matters flag is blatantly racist in this day and age. The fact that theirs is defensible, but mine is not is really unfair. 
 

I fully aware now that my response is wrong, however no one is taking my concerns into consideration. Rust is not the place for my sign, or theirs, or any other politically motivated sign. 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post

@Sararainmaker We will be updating our server rules shortly to exclude political imagery from signage. For the time being, we cannot ban someone over a Trump or Biden sign. They do not insight hate or racism.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Death said:

@Sararainmaker We will be updating our server rules shortly to exclude political imagery from signage. For the time being, we cannot ban someone over a Trump or Biden sign. They do not insight hate or racism.

You haven't spent a lot of time on facebook lately, have you? XD

Not much incites hate more than a Trump or Biden sign these days. It's the sad state of affair we live in.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand what you are saying, it isn't "technically" hate speech, but in the right forums and with the wrong people it may as well be.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Just to provide some further information…

According to the Anti-Defamation league, while ACAB is classified as hate speech…

https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/acab

They state it needs to be judged in its context. In this context, it is clearly referring to the current ACAB movement, hashtag, and acronym that can refer to a variety of terms (All Cops Are Bad, etc.). It is on a black background, possibly symbolizing the current social media blackout movement (described here https://theconversation.com/blackout-tuesday-the-black-square-is-a-symbol-of-online-activism-for-non-activists-139982.) The use of ACAB is rampant across social media in this new, current use nowadays.

As seen in the imgur link (https://imgur.com/pxExfQk), it was placed to provide counterpoint to the Blue Lives Matter flag (some history here https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/06/08/the-short-fraught-history-of-the-thin-blue-line-american-flag ). This flag, from its history, can also be construed as problematic and racist, having been used as a symbol for white supremacists, and can been seen as promoting a systemically racist police ideology as well. It is unclear the context and backstory behind which it was placed as a sign on US-Scourge, but could definitely be seen as hostile or racist to passersby and to POC. So one could definitely potentially argue that it also goes against the rules of the server (as a symbol of racism). Or the flag could simply mean support for those who risk their lives everyday at work in the police or public service. The context here is uncertain but debatable. 

This current ACAB movement (reflected in the sign as seen in the pic) is widely different, and is not used the same as the skinhead history of the term, nor does it have the same meaning or connotations. It specifically is a reaction to the systemic racism that is found in police forces worldwide, and can be seen as a direct offshoot of the Black Lives Matter movement. It is used as a form of protest, and used by those advocating police reform. Further information on the current use of ACAB and its relation to Black Lives Matter, as well as police reform, can be found quickly on the internet.

https://www.gq.com/story/history-of-acab does a good job of explaining the current meaning, and explains how it is not the same as was used by racist skinheads of the past.

I still hold my opinion that all political signage, including both of the above, are not appropriate for public viewing on the servers. While context is everything, the meaning and history can take different forms depending on how you look at it. Political symbols, words, flags, etc. can have widely different meanings according to each individual's personal experiences and ideology. And the servers are not a place for debate, or such signs that can invoke political toxicity.

Thank you all for your time in reviewing these matters and coming to a clear ruling to avoid issues in the future, and to continue to make Rustez servers a fun and clean place to play.

  • Love 2

Share this post


Link to post
47 minutes ago, CHRI5 TH33 F41RY said:

This is ridiculous. The term “ACAB” is not an exclusive term used by skinheads. This term is readily used in opposition to police violence, police racism, and police brutality. 
 

The fact that you find my ACAB sign so hateful, yet so strongly stand in front of the blue shirts matter is really telling. This banning is racially motivated because of this. I’m really disappointed in the RustEz admins decision and when my ban is lifted I will no longer play on any US servers, and will stick to the actually neutral EU servers. 

This  was motivated by your prior infractions and warning given by other admins during your time here in the community,  not because of racial bias. With the number of prior warnings you have received, the 3 day ban was lenient.  The absolute last thing any admin wants to do is to ban a player, but we can not just turn our back and ignore violations of the rules. 

Share this post


Link to post

@alexanightfire Well said! I appreciate you taking the time to really expand on this issue. Hopefully it can give closure to any lingering doubts.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, SPLIFF said:

This  was motivated by your prior infractions and warning given by other admins during your time here in the community,  not because of racial bias. With the number of prior warnings you have received, the 3 day ban was lenient.  The absolute last thing any admin wants to do is to ban a player, but we can not just turn our back and ignore violations of the rules. 

Number of prior warnings? The only other “warning” I can recall is when I first joined the server and had to change my name. If it was based on number was warnings then why wasn't that explanation provided until now? It seems as though now you are just looking for any excuse to justify your decision. 

Share this post


Link to post

Rust is a game lots of different people should be able to enjoy.  However, queer folks and BIPOC have to enjoy with tolerance not only for the far right idealogy that pervades most servers, but also for the outright hate.

 While on the rustez scourge server, “MAGA” is a username that came up, and while I understand the “very fine people on both sides” folks here are going to say it’s free speech, there is no denying what “MAGA” is meant to evoke.   There is also no denying it is a firm and aggressive political statement, that 50% of us will agree holds the same weight to us that ACAB means to you.
 

In a game about looting, destruction of property, and power, players carried on in the chat about how upsetting it was to see Black people protesting, and how “destruction of property” should not be glorified.  This turned into conspiracy theories about China and sharing of YouTube videos from dangerously misinformed sources.  I asked the chat to remain apolitical and was met with some exceptionally naive replies.  Including that because I used the word political, that I, in fact, was the only person “talking” about politics.

 

Point being, I am concerned that admins have already proven that they are ill equipped and irresponsible to be attempting to “lead” a discourse about political neutrality - something that only white folks believe exists.  And something that could not exist when you are willfully ignoring the education you are receiving about Blue Lives Matter, or Thin Blue Line, or whatever white supremacist propganda you are going to drop next. 

 

oh also ACAB. 

  • Love 1

Share this post


Link to post

@ch0d3 b4by Your message was uneeded and uncalled for.

@CHRI5 TH33 F41RY Here are the list of warnings we have on file for you.

04/06/2020 1520
Warned for having the username "f4iry f4g"

05/25/2020 1541
Warned for renaming other player's sleeping bags

07/23/2020
Cited for the inappropriate signage

 

I will be locking this thread to avoid any further unnecessary drama. As said before, we're working to restructure our community guidelines to insure political imagery and signage stays out of our community.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.