State of the US Pure Economy

[Lord McGuffin]

 

NOTE : This about PURE, the economies and experiences are different on different servers. So if you play on Survival or Scourge, please don’t highjack this thread. You might have an opinion, you may disagree with me, but at the end of the day this is about US Pure players.  

 

I think it’s time we took a long hard look at the state of the island as it stands now. We keep talking about map size, twig giants, wind turbines, search lights and so on, affecting performance and causing FPS drops. Yet somehow, we’re not tackling the actual root of the problem.

After talking with multiple players this wipe, it seems obvious to me now that these issues mainly come from 2 things:

1 -  HQM Quarry

2 -  Horse poop farming still quite profitable (lesser problem though, maybe)

It’s been 3 wipes now (I think) since the appearance of the “instanced” quarries. I’ve been here “full time” since July and it’s seems pretty clear that all these issues we keep talking about became much more prevalent since the instanced quarries were implemented. It’s simple really, players can get rich within a few days at start of wipe by simply selling HQM to Bandit. The ones I’ve spoken too don’t even know what to do with all their scrap after just one week into wipe. I myself don’t sell to bandit, but I’ve constructed a huge base and 3 huge Karen towers in just a week, all fully armored… (and I’m not even VIP). It really shouldn’t be that easy.

And as far as the horse dung farming goes, even though the amount was taken down drastically we still see these huge buildings on rivers that only serve to house 20, 30, 40 horses… So there’s obviously huge profits there. The “poop farmers” I’ve spoken to don’t even know what to do with all their earnings, not even two weeks in.

 

This of course means there are consequences, here they are:

1. The Land of Giants

As mentioned already, the most obvious impact is large bases, structures and of course more performance reducing items. Search lights, for example, are never a priority, but when you’ve got more scrap than you know what to do with, well… You know the drill. Same goes for wind turbines, building size, etc., etc. And for those who think generators or a power grid would be a solution, it’s not. All that would do is replace wind turbines with everything else; more search lights, more neons, even more scrap and resources in your pocket to build bigger.

 

2. The Land of Abundance

Doing something nice for someone else is, well, “nice” right? Unfortunately, on our little island world, generosity can truly be harmful. When a player has too much scrap, in a nice community like ours, they tend to either give things away or sell at a very low price. However, this growing pattern has some serious repercussions:

A)  People who like to trade, whether as merchants or farmers, now have to sell at much lower prices. So less profits, more losses, and less reason/motivation to fill up vendies, or even less motivation to maintain or start a store (or even moving on to another server where they can play this style).

B)  When you give a new or “poor” player something “big”, like say an M2 or a mini, they might be thrilled about it right? And you feel good for doing something nice for them. Here’s the issue though: without realizing it, either you or them, you’ve just completed one of their main objectives for them (or maybe even their only “end-game” objective). So there it is, it’s done. They got their big shiny thing they were driving towards and didn’t even have to work for it. They didn’t earn it and they didn’t learn anything along the way either. Does that sound like a satisfying gaming experience? Maybe for a few, but for most I would expect it’s not.

C)  I’ll keep this point short and sweet: price drops. People are selling things cheap which obviously affects points A) and B).

 

 3. The Land of Dreams Come True

It’s a simple one. With all this wealth, all those resources, instead of being able to build ONE of your big ideas in the wipe, you’re able to build 2, 3, 4 of them (whether separate or combined in one big base). After a few wipes, you start to run out of inspiration, imagination running dry. So you move on. I know I’m starting to feel that way…

 

In the End

Ok, so this might read a bit “dramatic”, like I’m writing a serious essay or letter to the editor and  our very future is at stake. Well no. This is still just a game. And yes, we are passionate about it, I’m passionate about it, but it’s a game. Still, if I was gonna share my thoughts about this, I wanted to do it right and take the time needed to clearly (and extensively) articulate my points to ensure they came across correctly and weren’t misinterpreted. If you’re going to “debate” me on this, please extend me the same curtesy. And again, I’m not talking about Survival or Scourge, I have no idea how things are going over there.

At the end of the day, I just think US Pure has gotten a little bit “depressing”. And if making adjustments to bolster the economy helps just adding a few days of player retention, well that’s a win in my book!

Thank you for reading.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Lord McGuffin

[Postanou]

It's not dramatic, and I 100% agree that instanced public pump jacks and quarries are a major problem on Pure.

Instancing has ruined the economy. I used to run shops each wipe, not only because it's what I enjoy, but I relied on the sales to supply me with HQM. Now, I don't need to bother. Plus, there are so many shops now selling everything so cheap, it's better to just recycle the items than sell them.

And yes, as an admin, I spoke to a player only yesterday about giving a huge starting amount of resources, guns, ammo, armour to a first time player on the server; It ruins their gameplay and experience. It's the same for those players that put out T2 & T3 workbenches outside for public use: players can get to end game content on day 1. I believe it makes the server boring, and affects player retention. I remember when admins used to build a Community Centre at the start of each wipe. I was given specific instructions to only put out a T1 workbench for the first 2 weeks, a T2 on the 3rd week, and a T3 for the last week of wipe. This was so players had to grind their way up at the start of each wipe. Now, there are a full set of public T1,T2,T3 workbenches at nearly every shop.

Lastly, I believe that instancing does not belong on Pure anyway. Pure is supposed to be close to vanilla, not only for the experience, but also so the servers remain in the Community listings on the Rust main menu. Instancing changes the server gameplay too much.

TBH, I only have one player who has a fetish for horse poop farming, so that doesn't seem an issue for AU Pure. I do, howerver, see a ton of massive hemp farms, especially along the rivers, that players use to sell cloth to make an obscene amount of scrap. These large hemp farms cause a fair amount of server lag.

[Death]

1 hour ago, Postanou said:

Lastly, I believe that instancing does not belong on Pure anyway

Could you give a bit more insight on how instanced quarries are any different than the original placeable quarries?

1 hour ago, Postanou said:

Lastly, I believe that instancing does not belong on Pure anyway

This is partially true. It does alter vanilla gameplay, however, PvE in general does as well. It's important to understand that public facilities are designed to encourage PvP and allow players to contest these areas, which obviously isn't possible on our server. 

[Lord McGuffin]

@Death I myself am not suggesting something as drastic as getting rid of them entirely, sorry I wasn't specific about a solution. I think say a 50% drop in yield would be good. Still worth using them, especially if you want HQM for your build (not for selling it...). Players can still make scrap from them, just 50% slower. That would help the economy a great deal, as well as retention.

And the difference is that before players had to wait their turn to use the quarries didn't they? That made things VERY different indeed. Maybe I'm not using the proper terminology, I figured "instanced" referred to the change you made 3-4 wipes ago that means we can now use them all at same time.

Sulphur quarry yield should be dropped as well, players seem to be able to make all the bullets/rockets they need rather quickly... This also hurts the economy and retention (since they can do Oil/Cargo etc. quickly and often, so they get bored faster). 

 

[Postanou]

22 hours ago, Death said:

Could you give a bit more insight on how instanced quarries are any different than the original placeable quarries?

Not everyone had their own placed quarry. And if they did, they either had to secure it, or babysit it while in operation. Same if they wanted to use the public quarries & PJs. And only ONE player at a time could use them. Now with instanced quarries and PJs, lots of players can use them simultaneously, and it's just F.A.F.

The worst thing is the yields. Even the best placed quarry in a snow biome, yielded low amounts of HQM; You got more of the other ores. This made players consider if it was worthwhile even placing one. With the instanced quarries you get a yield of 1:1, or 1:2. Dump 3k LGF into the HQM quarry, leave it overnight, and come back the next day to thousands of HQM ore. Couple that with the infinite supply of LGF you get from instanced PJs, and you get a ton of HQM ore very quickly. By day 2 of wipe, I have enough HQM to fully upgrade my base & heli tower to armoured.

Then when you consider 50+ players all using the PJs and quarries simultaneously, that is a huge injection of resources into the game every day. And of course, as instanced PJs & quarries are now risk free, a lot more players use them, compounding the generation of resources into the server. Now I see quite a few bases with dozens of large furnaces & oil refineries just churning out resources.

It's OK for Survival & Scourge where the surplus resources can be sold to the Black Market for net worth, and that is the intention of most players, but on Pure what can you do with it? Build more, which equals more server lag.

Pure might as well be a 10x server.

EDIT: The only real change PvE does is stops you being murdered every 5 minutes & gives you the opportunity to experience the gameplay.

[Lord McGuffin]

ffs...

Edited February 1, 2022 by Lord McGuffin

[rubiks-q-bert]

 

3 hours ago, Lord McGuffin said:

ffs...

That's pretty mild honestly compared to some builds. Def seen bigger horse farms.

[Squog]

I say lock quarries and stables for 7 days after wipe! (joking, kinda?)

[aNoNiM]

If you lock stables. you wont find a horse, because all the ones that spawn in the wild are going to be hoarded by 2-3 players. It happens on every server. This was the reason facepunch introduced stables.

I am trying to figure out where all this power is going. I wonder if it's one of those people who can't use power effectivly and uses splitters just to lose 75% of their power.

It's one of the reason why decay should still be a thing, it's cute and everything that you can build a huge structure, but the easiness added with no decay allows for massive builds that are otherwise facepunch didnt intend to have happen, there is no way you could farm and supply you TC if you can only handle 3 hour upkeep

[rubiks-q-bert]

4 hours ago, aNoNiM said:

If you lock stables. you wont find a horse, because all the ones that spawn in the wild are going to be hoarded by 2-3 players. It happens on every server. This was the reason facepunch introduced stables.

I am trying to figure out where all this power is going. I wonder if it's one of those people who can't use power effectivly and uses splitters just to lose 75% of their power.

It's one of the reason why decay should still be a thing, it's cute and everything that you can build a huge structure, but the easiness added with no decay allows for massive builds that are otherwise facepunch didnt intend to have happen, there is no way you could farm and supply you TC if you can only handle 3 hour upkeep

Horses spawn in the wild? Thought that was disabled.

Most people who have that many windmills are ignorant. Willful or oblivious is the question. 

I mean yeah, if it's supposed to be as close to vanilla as possible, that would include regular decay. In regards to what facepunch didn't intend to happen, that would include pve servers in general. So there are a lot of things they never intended that happen.