Better root combiners

[Quantum]

I have been playing around with the idea of power distribution in rust and i can do it with windmills. but as far as i can tell they are not very lag friendly. i could do the same thing with solar panels/ batteries but it's hard to design a good. power efficient system without coming up against the max depth error from root combiners. i can actually half get it working by tricking the root combiners into thinking theirs not 15 things placed behind them. infect having 15 of them in a row is actually not the issue. the problem is the root combiners checking for connections behind batteries 
if it is possible to remove  the root combiner limit OR to stop the root combiners from checking connections behind batteries that would be amazing. honestly i think this is how they should work to begin with, if the rout combiners check behind batteries they count. the battery. all your splitters. your charging circuit. all the rout combiners connected to the solar panels. and the solar panels themselves.
the other option i have found is a mod that lets you connect any component to a root combiner. this would allow me to design a better charging circuit that would also fix the current issue 
https://umod.org/plugins/better-root-combiners
if I can combine power at the very end of the circuit I can then block input from the batteries during the day to charge them up. while also connecting solar panels directly to the battery meaning less connections in the line this should fix the issue as well

I play on the AU server as well. I understand that installing a mod like this would most likely take time. but if you have a test server i would be happy to jump on a create the problem/ play around with the idea. stress test the mod to make sure it is stable etc

I have attached 3 pictures the first one is the current design for solar if windmills are also hooked up their power is lost during the night unfortunately. it has a root combiner depth of 15 meaning it cannot be upscaled any further

the second picture is the design I could with this mod by dedicating solar panels to charge batteries I can eliminate the need for splitters, and since i can combine power after the battery controller I can just charge batteries directly letting me divide the branches more efficiently. this design has a max depth of 8 meaning it can be upscaled for more power output. power from windmills is also not lost at night-time it will continue to power the grid

the third picture is currently possible in game however it abuses the fact that windmills just send out power all the time and can be only done with windmills. I don't really see this design for a power station to be reasonable as it will cause allot of lag for players near the station and requires allot of twig pillars to be built which is another lag causer it has a root depth of 4 so theirs allot of expandability. 

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Quantum

[rubiks-q-bert]

Slightly off topic but related, why would anyone need that much power?

 

[aNoNiM]

If anything, there should be a limit on how many windmills players can deploy, or solar panels. Not quite sure what you are trying to power with this, I am sure it's not anything small.

[Quantum]

im trying to power everyone on the map that wants it lol. it's just a hobby thing/ something to do to be honest and everyone gets like 200 free power each woot!
and yeah i agree having too many windmills is the problem that's why i want to do solar they are so much more lag friendly as far as i can tell. no moving parts etc but that's the problem. i can't do a solar system large enough with the current rust mechanics

Edited August 11, 2021 by Quantum

[Quantum]

or.. can i...

 

[Quantum]

so i could do an inefficient solar only power station and it would work for the most part. the only thing that kind of sucks about it is that allot of power is lost during morning an evenings. basically any time the solar panels  aren't outputting 50 power each the system will be running on batteries, which means I may end up getting battery capacity issues depending on how much load is on the system at night time
during mornings and evenings solar panels start at 0 and slowly rise to 50 power throughout the day all that power would be lost with this setup

[rubiks-q-bert]

25 minutes ago, Quantum said:

im trying to power everyone on the map that wants it lol. it's just a hobby thing/ something to do to be honest and everyone gets like 200 free power each woot!
and yeah i agree having too many windmills is the problem that's why i want to do solar they are so much more lag friendly as far as i can tell. no moving parts etc but that's the problem. i can't do a solar system large enough with the current rust mechanics

Any massive amount of entities will be laggy. Making a power station isn't gonna exactly be a fun place to fly over. Also, talk to @sharla.windrider. Might be able to give you a more reasonable way to do it.

[Quantum]

that's why I'm making this thing out where no one will fly. I'm at the top most corner of the map top left to be exact. their is no oil rig or anything special out here so theirs not a whole lot of reason for people to fly out here. i have been building all day and I have seen a single person which also lives on the island. their are 3 people on the other side of the island. closest player house is outside of render distance i think 3/4 chunks away
worse comes to worse i will have to device the power stations up to 4 smaller power stations across the map. however this will make power distribution a little more tricky as their may be more players in one area compared to another area so i would prefer to build one big station instead

previously i had some 30 windmills on a hill in the middle of the map and people were crashing so im hoping this location will be far away from the majority of flight paths and if people know it's here and they know they have a bad PC hopefully they will avoid it

Edited August 11, 2021 by Quantum

[Quantum]

i was offered power generators as well but they cost money and i kind of want to do it legit if anything. im happy to work within restrictions and what not but im also not doing it because it's going to be easy lol. im doing it just for fun and something to do. and to give people free power lol

[Aurora]

9 hours ago, Quantum said:

i can't do a solar system large enough with the current rust mechanics

I suspect that's by design as large power stations would no doubt cause unnecessary server performance issues for players – and create a network of wires across the map, which wouldn't be enjoyable for most people on the server.  A suggestion along this line might be to simply set up shop on a smaller scale and offer power service to only those near your base so you can still experiment with the mechanics of electrical systems and have fun with it. Perhaps offer in-base services to players who are looking for a little help getting their bases lit up. 

[Quantum]

I think I found a solution (although not perfect/ as efficient as I would like) with current mechanics. I'm honestly not sure if this is better or worse for server/ network/ player performance but theirs two ways of looking at this right?
my power station is build up in a part of the map where no one travels. when I'm at my power station my fps is honestly actually better then most build up areas on the server sure i have 256 solar panels and 64 batteries along with enough root combiners to kill an army but I'm literally the only base in render distance
if I run a single line of memory cells into a populated area. I can supply everyone in that area with enough power for their needs, that means that anyone in the area does not have the need for windmills, solar panels etc. the most they need is a single large battery to power car lifts in case somehow the line goes down for any reason
currently I'm playing around with the idea of just having non tc protected memory cells placed on the ground RIGHT next to roads. players wont be able to pick them up if they don't have tc privilege which means they need through effort to effectively be a troll
since I'm placing nothing but a memory cell near a road (which is already an area you cannot build too close too anyway) im really not taking up any potential build space for the main line.  lines coming off the main line will have to be build out to bases but if a player wants to place a TC and build something. if it is in the way. theirs nothing stopping them from moving it themselves
I already offer my services and have set up a few bases with efficient charging systems and im happy to help anyone that asks for it lol
 

[sharla.windrider]

This isn't feasible to do .. you run into max depth issues trying to use mem cells or xor switches as extension cables.  You could do it for a local area.  You could even make the wires invisible (or at least you use to .. they changed some stuff this wipe .. not sure if invisible wires is still a thing)

[sharla.windrider]

https://www.rustrician.io/?circuit=7992f1d980a4a9c087eb2f8c51498897  this would be better imho .

So this circuit shows your circuit (very simply) on the left .. its a simple small circuit for example and training purposes..  the above circuit is an expansion of the right circuit in this.

It's far superior.  Both circuits do the same thing .  However, on the right when power generation gets low the batteries take over and ANY remaining power gets redirected to charge the batteries , prolonging their life.  The circuit on the left .. that power just gets wasted. https://www.rustrician.io/?circuit=6e473df011255368fed1e807dd007cf1

[sharla.windrider]

power stations are easy to make but again .. due to limitations with cable range and having to use too many xor switches and tc's (TC limitation would be the ultimate limit) since you cant put electronics on the ground for fear of them despawning.  You have to have at least a triangle thing there with a half wall (at minimum) with a tc on it (usually i put it in its own little triangle room with a door, feed the tc and call it good .  Solar panels is NOT the way to go for a station like this .. only wind turbines OR preferably Test generators since we can buy them and they provide a lot of power (more than they use to )  (also with a test generator you dont need any of that circuit you can literally just root combine them and be done .. you dont need batteries or anything)  (especially for our pve servers).    DM me in discord for further info.. I can direct you to another discord or such to help out with what you are trying to do .  Just keep in mind power stations should be for your local area (like if you have neighbors in a small city like pookie town or arcadia (dont know if you were here when we had pookie town)

If you need other things logic wise .. I even have a true randomizer using a 3 bit logic system (you can make it bigger but it gets dumb on materials and trying to keep things straight) .  I've essentially made a computer in this game .. and it took all the components.  I know Nih made a Pong game using the simple lights as a massive huge admin monitor.  the computer for it was ridiculous.   But it was cool AF. 

[Quantum]

On 8/14/2021 at 3:28 PM, sharla.windrider said:

power stations are easy to make but again .. due to limitations with cable range and having to use too many xor switches and tc's (TC limitation would be the ultimate limit) since you cant put electronics on the ground for fear of them despawning.  You have to have at least a triangle thing there with a half wall (at minimum) with a tc on it (usually i put it in its own little triangle room with a door, feed the tc and call it good .  Solar panels is NOT the way to go for a station like this .. only wind turbines OR preferably Test generators since we can buy them and they provide a lot of power (more than they use to )  (also with a test generator you dont need any of that circuit you can literally just root combine them and be done .. you dont need batteries or anything)  (especially for our pve servers).    DM me in discord for further info.. I can direct you to another discord or such to help out with what you are trying to do .  Just keep in mind power stations should be for your local area (like if you have neighbors in a small city like pookie town or arcadia (dont know if you were here when we had pookie town)

If you need other things logic wise .. I even have a true randomizer using a 3 bit logic system (you can make it bigger but it gets dumb on materials and trying to keep things straight) .  I've essentially made a computer in this game .. and it took all the components.  I know Nih made a Pong game using the simple lights as a massive huge admin monitor.  the computer for it was ridiculous.   But it was cool AF. 

hay mate. not to be rude at all but if your going to post a reply please take a moment to read the entire post first. i appreciate the circuitry help but also. your just showing me what i already know and what i have already posted in my first post i know how to use a memory cell to flip the main power to charge the batteries when theirs not enough power to power the base directly. but that circuit runs into max depth issues quickly since root combiners after the batteries count components behind batteries, through the charge circuit + anything you count past that as well. thus it is not feasible for a large power grid setup. if you had read the post more carefully you would know that i am only using the simple "split system" settup to achieve a higher potential output from the power grid. at the moment I'm pumping out 6.4K and i can easily double that if i need. since i am no where near the root combiner limit

I'm also just running memory cells around the map. just plain on the ground and so far they have not decayed. but i will update this post before the next wipe to give decay info if their is some "long" decay timer that i do not know about. maybe it's a 7 day decay timer I'm not sure. either way it's working for me at the moment and I have run cabled around the entire map

if you would like to jump into the AU scourge VC in discord and discuss this further I would be more then happy to. but as I said in a previous post. I found a solution that works and I am already doing the thing I said I would be doing.

[sharla.windrider]

sorry , the entire post was far too long for me to read .. was then .. is now .. i'm working 12- 16 hour days ..  is it possible .. yes , will it be 100% reliable .. no .. is it feasible .. no

will admins hate you for it .. yes

 

[rubiks-q-bert]

What sharla said. But I'll say it more plainly. This is just an awful idea and has potential to hurt the server more than help it.

Edited August 19, 2021 by rubiks-q-bert

[aNoNiM]

Can we enforce the old rule, I know there was a rule on US Survival that you were not allowed to run pipes/bases more than a 1x1 grid. Same should apply here.

This whole idea needs to be shot down, you have a loss of power each time you put a repeater. Most people nowaways know how to create a power source. If they don't maybe you should help them to teach them instead of trying to create so many entities to make a pet project of yours

[jamtoa]

I love the new test generators have 3 outputs at 200 each now. This is  a big help. If we could bump them up to 500 each output that's 1500 power and $2 a test gen and i think it would reduce lag enough to make everyone want to pay $2 a month at lease.

[rubiks-q-bert]

4 hours ago, jamtoa said:

I love the new test generators have 3 outputs at 200 each now. This is  a big help. If we could bump them up to 500 each output that's 1500 power and $2 a test gen and i think it would reduce lag enough to make everyone want to pay $2 a month at lease.

No one needs that much power. Even for an excessively large farm, 600 should be more than enough.