souptime_365

Right now, both the campfire and the sleeping bag are in rotation on the Elysium BM.  Kinda silly don't ya think?

1 minute ago, Futrex said:

Alright @GREENG1ANTand @souptime_365let's simmer down a bit and not get off the topic at hand.

@GREENG1ANTThe response you posted shouldn't have been said like that in my opinion. While souptime has one of these large farms there is no need to come off the way you did, it just provokes a response and that's exactly what you got.

@souptime_365While what @GREENG1ANTsaid comes off as rude there was no need to respond like that, it fixes nothing and can causes issues.

Like I said when I made the thread I want to hear everyone's opinion, so while some of us don't get along let's not cause a fuss and cramp the thread up with stuff like this.

I have gotten so many great responses so far, so let's keep it that way please.

ok dad.  im sorry.

all love for everyone.

17 hours ago, GREENG1ANT said:

The only reason soup is so against this is because he's one of the people with 200+ composters. He dosent give a shit about calling in helis or tping a bunch, I'm sure his credits are in the hundreds of thousands. The other day he was talking about loosing 40k scrap to a roll back and how his current composters give him 54k scrap every 9hrs or some shit. Oh no you guys I can't make 130k+ per day because people don't want the server to be as laggy, what ever shall I do.

Correct.  U mad?

When's the last time you tossed people free heli signals or bought out an entire vending machine just to make someone's day?

14 minutes ago, alexanightfire said:

I disagree with most points of your analysis souptime_365. To start with, the black market is not there for necessity, it is there for convenience. My understanding is that it was created as another way for people to earn credits, and spend them on items readily available so that you don’t have to find them on the map (convenience), or have to wait to take a public heli (convenience and reward). It was introduced before there were places on the map that sold transport, so that a player didn’t have to spend hours trying to find a boat or mini. It was also created as a way for people to get something back from excess resources at the end of wipe, as people would find they had amassed large amounts of resources with nothing to spend them on. In this way, the black market was rewarding players for their usual efforts and playtime by giving them credits back in return. I don’t think that buying things from the black market, or using distress signals, was intended to be a common daily occurrence for everyone, but actually a form of convenience and/or reward.

Before the black market was created, people would have to find other ways to get transport, find salvaged hammers, and would grind up zombie kills and time on server instead to get credits. In this way, people were more aware of the work it took to get credits and their credit usage and therefore would usually be much smarter with respawns, revives, and teleports. The game was more of a grind and harder in some ways: more about surviving and figuring out ways to get what you need and how to get there. Now, with Air Wolf, Fishing Villages, Ranch/Barn as well as car spawns, and mini/car taxi services, it is no longer difficult at all to find transport.

Another point is that most people who create massive farms, or massive scrap endeavours, do so in order to get high amounts of credits that are not really necessary for your day-to-day teleport or revive cost. They already have tons of credits, and do it as a more passive way to get scrap, an alternative to the active ways (monuments, zombie killing, fishing with rods, etc.) to ensure they are always making scrap when not online. I totally get it; it’s fun and fulfilling to look down and see boxes filled with scrap, or have hundreds of thousands of credits available. Therefore I really don’t think that making things cheaper on black market would help: a lot of players would still be making massive farms anyways with the goal of making credits and profit.

Yes there are some exceptions: newer players who are low on credits, creating big farms to farm scrap to trade in for credits. But for the most part what I have personally observed is that it is not the case: it is mostly veterans and those with lots of credits already who know the system and take advantage of the ability to build farms, compost farms, and fish farms of unlimited size, as is allowed right now, and trade in for massive amounts of credits. Futrex presented a great idea; having community farms for use, or buddying up with your friends and/or team and using the same farming facilities.

Home teleports were already capped out at 200 credits max a day each /home. Even teleporting to home is a convenience, not a necessity, so I agree with this cost incurred. I believe Death has been looking into re-balancing the black market as well in the near future, so all this may be a moot point after all. Plus, if a player really gets stuck being unable to revive or teleport, or needs transport, there is almost always someone ready and willing to help in chat.

However, in terms of the current subject, I  really don’t think a black market rebalance would fix the problem of massive farms, and unnecessary large amounts of planters, fish traps, composers per person. I think the last few months has show that without a limit, there is still a lot of of people who if they can, they will build those massive lagfests, be it 100s of planters, fish traps, and/or composters, as it is ‘allowed’ right now.

The whole point of mods like TP is to use them.  Yes, blackmarket is a convenience but if Death doesn't intend to have it used as a functional part of the server he should just remove the mods all together and publish a proclamation stating how he wants everyone to play on his servers and he'd be totally within his rights to do so because they're his servers.  

If Death doesn't want people accumulating "Rust wealth" so that people can self-determine how they'd like to play on the server while utilizing said mods, he should remove the mods, add more rules and regulations, and give the admins the additional responsibility of policing peoples play styles. 

If Death doesn't want "Rust-wealthy" people using TP as their main mode of transportation because he has an ideological position on how people should travel on the server then he needs to remove the TP mod.  He should make it clear that people need to utilize vanilla modes of transportation because RP type people get a warm and cozy feeling seeing people out and about on horses and cars and shit.

In my suggestion I clearly stated that it would be a logical first step in addressing an issue.  Baby steps... if that doesn't work, maybe limiting specific entity counts would be a next step but just like real life, blanket bans on things like planters and composters without thoughtful game theory on how it might play out is how you end up with game breaking unintended consequences and blowback.  

The only person who has any right to inflict an ideological position on how people should be playing on the server is Death.

If Death wants to create some sort of visionary authoritarian utopia of a PvE-RP server with community farms and limiting player's ability to self-determine the outcome of the game as designed by FP and the mods currently installed, that's fine too.

1 hour ago, alexanightfire said:

I fully agree. I touched on the idea of limiting farms in my post yesterday at this link here:

 

Even if there is no set rule in place, if we each take charge and temporarily reduce what might be our usual farm size when there are way less players around, it might go a long way to help. Nobody needs millions of scrap, 100s of large planters, fish traps, and/or composters.

Root cause analysis. 

What causes people to want to build massive farms? 

To get scrap from cloth, to make pure teas, and acquire points. 

Why do people need so many points?  >The incredible cost it takes for TP, minis, attack heli signals, etc.

Why do people need to stack so much scrap?  >To sell for points, buy resources to make explosives, and to feed their tom foolery.

Why do people need massive farms for pure teas?  >Because they're absolutely worth it, they cost a lot of berries to make, and they're semi lucrative to sell for scrap.

The logical first step to solve a lot of these problems is to rebalance the cost of things in the black market and to decrease the cost of teleporting.  The whole idea loading your backpack with your inventory so you can kill yourself for a point free TP is a indicator that something is wrong with the intended functions of the mods we use.

Right now it costs the equivalent of 50,000 scrap worth of points to call in a heli.  If someone is farming hemp exclusively to be able to buy a heli every once in a while that's 400,000 cloth to buy one.  You'd have to harvest a single planter with perfect clone 635 times to get that much cloth and even 9 Planters would be ~70 harvests.  A single 200 point teleport is the equivalent of 20,000 frags or 80,000 wood... That's just silly.

I know some people enjoy the large farmer RP and that's fine.  If people want to take it that far, they should be able to do so but the mods we have on the server that are supposed to be a benefit have become a burden for the average player just to experience and are likely the reason people build large farms and scrap generating schemes like composters.  

imo, a point system rebalance is the most logical first step to combat large farms that may be causing server instability.

1 hour ago, Aurora said:

Totally get that @souptime_365 . Your post isn't "bitch mode" you are voicing valid concerns that are not going unnoticed.  

I've stayed in this community for as long as I have because this stuff gets handled. When I first started playing here RustEZ was 3 servers and a community a fraction of the size it was last wipe. Many things are amplified because of server instability issues we have with the higher pop servers right now. Death will continue to work on these problems and will roll out fixes, upgrades and whatever is necessary to smooth this out for this wipe and provide a better experience in the future.

Player behavior issues are also frustrating for admins. We need the community to report problem players so they can be dealt with. 

Unfortunately, problem players are not limited to the standard community member role. Over nine servers, I am just as likely to see a VIP or Subscriber reported for stealing loot, monument camping, bullying, disrespect, or generally just being a toxic asshat in chat as I am any member of the community.  When players have been around for a while they know how to toe the line, skirt rules, and how to avoid detection.  I'm not saying your idea is a bad one – I just want to point out that a player doesn't change their behavior simply because they choose to spend $5 on a subscriber role.

Thank you for sticking with us while we get it together and for taking time to voice your concerns about the community. We know this wipe is a tough go for players and staff. If your usual server is just not an enjoyable experience for you right now, try one of the lower pop EU or AU servers, while we get our shit together on the other high pop servers (and we will). It's the same server, just hosted in a different region. https://rustez.com/connect/ 

Did I just have a reply deleted from this thread?

9 hours ago, SKUDRUNNER said:

The problem with exclusivity servers is they tend to become, and pardon my French.... Circlejerks. Great, you paid a bit of money and now you're in a special club with other people just like you. And these people are going to say that their server is so much better and talk about how bad the other servers and people on them are.

I do not like this idea. Sorry I had to be so blunt with it, but I don't think we really need to put a divide in the community in the form of Exclusive server access. There's a reason VIP's don't have queue priority, either.

I'm not sure you understand the concept of wanting to pay a premium for a premium product.  You don't like the idea because people on a subscriber only server might say they're having a better time?  Why would that bother you?  If you're at a football game, do you sit there pouting about the shrimp cocktail people have access to in the box seats or do you enjoy the game?

A good analogy of what I see happening would be bagging groceries... Right now it seems like we're jamming everything in one bag expecting good results.  Eventually it'll reach a breaking point.  In this case, adding all the new players to the same server has broken the experience of what many have come to know as the RustEZ brand. 

The smart move imo is to invest in what attracted people to these servers in the first place, the experience, not seeing how many ravaging goblins we can pack into the same map fighting over available resources and loot.

How would you suggest the issues I listed above be addressed?  Honest question, not trying to be a dick.

I'm super happy to see the server and the community doing well with all the new players right now but it's become quite unpleasant for the type of PvE experience I enjoy. 

Here's what's rustlin my jimmies with scourge right now..

 - The volume of builds make it feel like there's no more wilderness on the map. 

 - Chat is obnoxious and crammed with goobers.

 - I've stopped visiting monuments because there's a 99% chance it's been looted.

 - The end-game type stuff like brad, and oil rigs are usually swarming with people who fight over loot.

 - Helis, personal or public, are a shit show.  I had the loot yanked from the first heli I did this wipe from a group of goobs who don't understand the concept of PvE.  Luckily Death was around and tossed me a few crates to make up for it.  I've had to build a heli base in the ocean just to get away from people but that comes with its own issues like trying to find dark green crates in dark green seaweed..  The last heli I did had people shooting at it from a nearby base trying to down it..  Telling them to stop in chat was useless and they still came over looking for "earned" loot on a heli I called in for 50k worth of scrap..

 - Flying a mini is no longer pleasant with the volume of builds and windmills.  Prior to this wipe I was getting anywhere from 60-80fps flying around and now I'm nowhere near that.

A subscriber only server would likely be the least maintenance when it comes to admin duties.  I've got to believe that if someone's subscribing monthly, they probably know all the rules, commands, and functions of the mods so I'd expect a negligible amount player vs. player issues for admins to address.  Some might look at it as splitting the community up unnecessarily but the things I listed above are kinda making me not want to play right now.  

anyway.... don't mean to sound like im in bitch mode here but the dynamics of these servers have changed dramatically since the bump in rust popularity and it hasn't been solely positive.  

Make the cost to upgrade equal to the mats for a new turbine.

People might not need to build them as high if they can just upgrade them to what they need.

Less turbines = Less lag, less people complaining about lag, less people crashing into unrendered turbines, and less people complaining about crashing into unrendered turbines.

I think the NPC bases are an awesome idea.  The loot however, is not that great.  It takes a significant amount of resources to get to the core and not a whole lot is gained unless you happen upon a rare weapon.  Maybe add quantities of resources to the loot boxes for a chance to come out profitable?