Map Changes

[Death]

As you may recall, we scaled our maps down in December from 3,500 to 3,000 which was a 10%-ish decrease in size. This change had drastic improvements over server and client performance, but with a drastic decrease in space.

Normally, I would slowly increase the map size every month until we find that sweet spot, but in doing so could re-introduce some of the previous issues we've encountered the majority of the year. Had it not been so bad I would say it's worth the risk, but I'm torn between starting to increment in January, or keeping it as-is for at least another solid month of smooth and stable gameplay.

While I would normally start an internal discussion and let the admins responsible for that server decide, I thought it would be better, in this case, to hear it directly from the source. Please let me know if you'd prefer at least another month of stable gameplay, or if you'd prefer to see incremental larger maps every month until we hit the sweet spot in exchange for possible issues we've seen before in the past.

Also, share your opinion in a brief reply if you don't mind. It's not required, though, appreciated!

[a 3/0 sc lauan]

I voted keep the same, i havent noticed any complaints about the available space, however i've read plenty of comments about how stable things have been this month which has been awesome to see! 

[Postanou]

Keep the same, at least for January, until the kids go back to school.

Otherwise increase admin powers to regulate player builds.

[ZappeR]

 i vote to keep it for as is few more wipes and see . Been off for a while and im  loving how smooth its been running now . Keep up the good work and thank you for the  experience.

Edited January 1, 2022 by ZappeR

[TiffDust]

Keep same. Can't tell through gameplay that the map is smaller, gives most players a challenge to build smaller (or within reason.)
Spent a wee tiny-bit of time on US Pure, no lag.... maybe the map always looks like it has chickenpox? (from all the shops) 

[sharla.windrider]

agreed, keep it the same for a month or two, THEN try to slowly increase the size in feb or march .. if that ended up being the problem .. we will find out one of these months.  But for now , we need to see that  keeping the map size small resolved the problem.  1 good month with a smaller map size can't say that for sure.(lets go for 2 or 3 AND then try making it bigger)

[sharla.windrider]

also , if it was the map size , you can keep your sanity another month or two (you've been fighting this problem long enough ,, take a break)

[Lord McGuffin]

I say keep it the same, but if we could try and bring roadside scientists back that would be great... Not enough animals before, a little bit too many now, no scientists.

It feels wrong without them, it really does.

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Lord McGuffin

[Death]

13 minutes ago, Lord McGuffin said:

I say keep it the same, but if we could try and bring roadside scientists back that would be great... Not enough animals before, a little bit too many now, no scientists

The lack of scientists is not map-related. Facepunch broke them last update.

[dave40262000]

This was my first wipe on your server (scourge), but I feel the map is plenty big to accommodate your server pop. I had no issue finding places to build and feel that server stability/performance should trump map size. 

[Wizardnblack]

I feel as if it didn't have a single bit of change from the last map loaded. Still had the same things happen around the same time frames.. have you thought about setting up a reboot schedule for twice a day instead to see if that helps curb a lot of the issues too? 

[rubiks-q-bert]

I've seen way less complaints this wipe so keep to what's working. I do second what Postanou said in regards to possibly regulating builds anyway.

16 hours ago, Postanou said:

Keep the same, at least for January, until the kids go back to school.

Otherwise increase admin powers to regulate player builds.

 

[Sweetbeef]

I don't think this is a good month to really decide things with. Still had lag at times in areas. We had the holiday so I'm sure there was more decor out than normal. The TC range increase was a bit of a mess and I'm not sure if I'd want that and a smaller map put together, but thats my thought tho. I'm game to find the sweet spot for everything this year. 

[Darktweets]

Limitations on fireworks/lights not-withstanding, Keeping the maps at the same until after you get a read on how much pop you have on a non-holiday basis would be good. Perhaps increasing for specialized 'vacation' periods [March, Spring Break, June+ Summer Break], but decreasing sizes for scholastic/work activities. I have to heartily agree with Postanou about admins being able to limit player builds or having more enforcing powers.

A limitation of 'massive builds' near major locations [outpost, bandit], etc would be helpful, or a defined location for 'flashy' types. A requirement for any tower above six stories to have some sort of 'flying beacon' so that people don't ram into them would be extremely helpful, or turning decay back on for Twig [which would kill most massive builds that just get left for ages] 

[WooKiE_MaN]

I Think there should be a limit on foundation limits on certain servers. As i believe that this is creating allot of server and rubber banding for alot of payers. Each specific server (Pure / Survival / Scourge) should have a foundation limit for each TC. Or create a mod that can check your max building with /buildlimit or something like that.  Max TC's or popular items that people build (Planters  / Composters etc)

Alot of time ive seen some mega structures that have no meaning at all, and with hundreds of lights / turbines this is dramatically affecting the server

Also encouraging /vip players to have different building limits might be effective also.

Edited January 2, 2022 by WooKiE_MaN

[Tribal1]

1 hour ago, Darktweets said:

or turning decay back on for Twig [which would kill most massive builds that just get left for ages] 

Tangentially Relevant: I like this idea from Darkweets, if a single level of a thing can be targeted (I don't know what kind of control you have).  I'm probably against more lights on towers,  though.  I don't hit them because they aren't illuminated, I hit them when they pop into existence without warning.

Saying that, I'd sooner agree with WooKiE.  Large twig structures with bajillions of lights and several turbines all activating at once and rotating seem to give me the biggest frame hits, along with the new utility lights.  I could rotate in my own base and drop from 60 frames to 20-30, just looking at a teammates base with several utility lights.  I was inside, so the lights were not visible to me.  It doesn't seem to matter if the utility lights are powered, they still seem to effect performance.

My Opinion: On survival, I didn't hear any complaints about space.  I'd vote leave it alone if people aren't hollering and performance is up.

[Marija]

Sending people with 30 foundation base and 8 wind turbines to electricity training boot camp would help with performance issues.

[Cass]

22 hours ago, Sweetbeef said:

I don't think this is a good month to really decide things with. Still had lag at times in areas. We had the holiday so I'm sure there was more decor out than normal. The TC range increase was a bit of a mess and I'm not sure if I'd want that and a smaller map put together, but thats my thought tho. I'm game to find the sweet spot for everything this year. 

I agree with everything you've said here, Sweet.

[TiffDust]

interesting points..

i think that lights/twig bases lag out (drop fps) individual computers of the server population (when you check out that 'laggy base') and not entirely the server itself (aside from lights and walls added to the collective entity count, purge gets most twig stuff eventually) 
Map size however, we had enough; trees to chop, ores to farm, space to fly over, places to get horses stuck, stability?
 

Edited January 3, 2022 by TiffDust
extra clarity for clarity tyvm

[Princess Angie]

17 minutes ago, TiffDust said:

Map size however, we had enough; trees to chop, ores to farm, space to fly over, places to get horses stuck, stability?

I'm with Tiff here - AU Scourge had little to no issues with much this wipe. Everyone had their own corner of the map to build in, there was enough resources for everyone and no complaints (only because I think a lot of people didn't notice) about smaller map size.

The only real issues I can see in the future is the populated areas like rivers, lakes, monuments, Wook-E-Mart @WooKiE_MaNlol, being a learning experience for all servers when the TC range is back to being increased, and of course the usual mega-builds like hemp and pickle farms taking up an even bigger portion of the map; all which can usually be fixed if people build up and not out. having a 30x30 hemp or pickle farm isn't ideal when in reality you can build it in theory 7x7 and have a few stories which I'm sure all admins can help with some amazing space saving techniques. It'll be weird not having neighbors so close also, but we can still have our little towns and communities where people can congregate; just safely.

All in all from AU Scourge side of things the map size is great, performance has been great, and even visiting US servers it's been less of a clusterfeck so hopefully next wipe we can shuffle over there for some events.
 

 

[Lord McGuffin]

Can't speak for Survival or Scourge, you guys have a lot of added stuff going on it would seem. But on Pure servers I'd hate to see a build limit imposed. It would be a hindrance to creativity, which has gone down somewhat in the past few months btw (since September's Wild West theme we haven't seen the same level of creativity, lots more "big but iffy" builds that aren't exactly pretty or fun, and a lesser offer in vendies as far as decorative items and whatnot (excluding Xmas items this month of course)).

Deterrents like twig decay or added cost for things like wind turbines and search lights, if possible to do, would be a good way to curb some of the "bad" building habits we're all talking about. Twig decay after 5 days for example (making sure players are made well aware of this as they join), and increasing the amount (doubling it imo) of resources required for the "problematic" items would most likely be enough to make the difference we need. Also would a horse limit help? As things are now on Pure, I can't really see how a "poop farm" can be worth it. But with a horse limit of say 10 per player, I dunno, then the practice would not even be viable.

If at all possible to do...  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sincerely,

- Mayor elect Sir Lord McGuffin

Edited January 3, 2022 by Lord McGuffin

[rubiks-q-bert]

Beating a dead horse but big builds absolutely should be limited/monitored. Monster builds absolutely cause problems for people. As well as the pickle farms which honestly, I thought would be dead by now with the changes to that. 

[Clover Ocean]

As someone who regularly explores the maps looking for that "perfect" little nook to settle in, I can honestly say I didn't notice a difference at all in map size. 

[dave40262000]

I think there is a huge difference between limiting creative builds vs "Big Builds". Maybe I am just too noob, but I saw several what I would call big builds this wipe on my server. These are like 20x20 7 story tall squares with a ton of wind turbines on the roof. Not much creativity on those types of builds. If some kind of restriction was put in place, wouldn't multiple buildings (along with individual TC's) still allow plenty of creativity while still limiting total size per TC? I am on US Scourge and I know of one player that has a massive "base", but it is made up of multiple buildings with multiple TC's. I do not get that many frame drops when in his area compared to some of the giant monoliths I come across. I lived out of a simple 2x2 this wipe while I got my feet wet, but even if I build up on future wipes I plan to use multiple TC's and buildings to handle my needs.

[rubiks-q-bert]

Creative sometimes end up being the most obnoxious. Height limit reached. A crap ton of electrical stuff. All that can put a strain on the server or at the very least, various individuals if they get to close. Big builds are usually better because they might actually have less entities.