Community Poll - Enabling Upkeep for Pure

[Leo]

Absolutely upkeep is needed. I took a break from ez servers because of the intense fps drop i receive some places. I get people want monster bases but honestly, it is not necessary. Upkeep is something ive wanted for a while. 

[PepperJack]

EZ Pure is labelled as vanilla and is PVE.  Yes, the decay should be turned on.  The solution to any complaints was solved by the industrial age.  

[Celsus]

If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

[Danisco Gaming]

if upkeep enable I might play pure server

[Scotty]

We have stone quarries which give 3 rows of stone and a row of metal a few times a day, HQM quarries which give 1800 (i think twice a day), Pure ore teas for sale, pure wood tea gives 3k wood per tree lol, you can use industry to daisy chain chests to feed your TC. And as Death said for community projects have a dump box out the front linked to your TC with industry for donations, without question I'll help, and i know for a fact there are heaps of people like me who love to contribute to this community and would love to help. But most of all you feel gooood when you have to earn it. I play official sometimes and it ain't for the conversation. I get great satisfaction from earning it. And there will be much less lag and eyesore fields of twig! Think of this as an opportunity for something better, not a chore. I really think the juice will be worth the squeeze. And if not, we go back right? No downside to try, only the possibility for something better. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Scotty

[Death]

On 7/3/2023 at 3:47 AM, Celsus said:

If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

It's very much broken.

[Obsidian Knight]

Im for the upkeep. I mean, chances are you farmed the materials 50x over throughout the duration of the wipe. It really wont hurt to knock it out. Its obnoxious to go by townships with 50 windmills and spot lights for days just so I can crash my heli or car due to lag. 

[koys]

No. Pure PVE, No Decay. The main point of clicking on this server at least for me. It's not just some basic creative server but I can still go around the map and PLAY RUST, while also still enjoying myself with my build. Adding upkeep, even if its as "minuscule" as you claim, would just make QoL and experience on the server worse.

Personally I enjoy going around and seeing people's builds, and that you can just build without worry. I can understand not wanting massive twig structures littering the map but if you are trying to keep your pop higher for longer on Pure this is not the way to go. Surely there is another way to get rid of or minimize specifically twig structures like some are mentioning.

 Some players do log in to make sure their base doesn't disappear, BUT WHY IS THIS WRONG? Some cannot hop on and grind every day and if you want to make a decent build then upkeep is going to skyrocket. Then on our free days when we do get on, what, we are just forced to farm upkeep for the rest of the days we have work/IRL responsibilities? Sometimes I can go a week without hopping on because I just don't have time to game. But I still do like to come on and play every now and then.  I enjoy this server but if the base I worked hard on decays because I didn't upkeep it, well, I guess I will also be out. I don't get how upkeep is supposed to make our experience more "vanilla".  The worst part about any PVP server is upkeeping your base, mainly you just want to make a hard to raid base that won't take too much upkeep and then go and do PVP. Why would I want to come onto this PVE server and upkeep a base that isn't optimized for upkeep like it would be on a PVP server and instead something that I just enjoyed building. Not to mention that TC only takes single stacks so that makes it even worse.

I'm not entirely sure on the rules regarding this, but I've heard here and there that a player can only have 1 ring of TCs around their base. This is good already because players can't take up too much space. Maybe there could be a seperate rule where players have to keep it 'reasonable' but are still free to be creative with their bases if this isn't already a thing. Its pretty obvious that you wouldn't be allowed to make lag machines or hog entire squares of the map. I still think players should be allowed large bases to a point... If it is obviously huge, in the way, and a hindrance to players gameplay than that would be breaking the rule.

The poll is also SO close,  how many players would the server lose because of this when it is clearly not wanted by a majority of the population? And how quickly into the month if something like upkeep was thrown into the equation? For those who are voting yes, what is this adding to your day? Node farming, your extra goal, which is to hit some rocks... Invigorating..  If people are already getting off and abandoning their base as you say, then why would they come back on just to upkeep it? I am so against this change... It would actually kill the server for me... Because if bases already DO get purged after a certain amount of time, then these players obviously want their base to stay up...

EDIT: Another reason why upkeep isn't needed is because the server is Vanilla 1x. Maybe if the server was 2x I'd be down for the upkeep shit. Pardon me but F upkeep on 1x PVE man........ I'm also not complaining about it being 1x... The 1x grind is why I like the pacing of this server as it is.

Edited July 7, 2023 by koys

[Postanou]

I'm pretty sure the decision had already been made, with or without this vote.

[Celsus]

Of the three servers, Pure consistently runs the smoothest all wipe. The one that runs least well is the only one with upkeep enabled. Scourge has huge builds, both in size and number. In many areas, within only a few days or a week at most after wipe, the only way to get around in many areas is to look at the ground while walking. With zombies present. Upkeep will not improve Pure if it is meant to give players pause when considering how large or complex to make their base.

I gauge a server's performance not by lag spikes, but by how long it takes for the 'flash' to appear on a node when I approach it. If the flash is present when I get there, server is running well. If it takes a few seconds to appear, it's still fine, and this is common late into the wipe. But regularly on Scourge, there are so many immense builds that even in rather remote areas it can take ten or even fifteen seconds for that flash to appear.

So I think the justification for adding upkeep that many respondents to this thread offer as their reason for a yes vote will not be realized.

[Stimpy]

75% upkeep plus a 50% increase to wood, stone, HQ and frag stack sizes?

 

That way there’s a demand and reason for upkeep, yet, with a few hours an average farm could set your base up to last a day or two just fine.

 

Theres a lot of people who only play a bit here and there due to time constraints and a standard system could prevent them from obtaining what they need, essentially leaving your whole play session as a “gathering mats for upkeep,” journey.

 

Regardless of how it’s implemented it would at least somewhat minimize the massive structures. Though, with access to pump jacks and recyclers, it still wouldn’t be hard to make a huge base if that’s your intention and how you spend your time.

 

I think it’s a welcome change but I understand why some people with limited time or expertise would only see it as a negative. To be fair this is the only PVE no decay with a custom salvage remove option, as well as pure PVE that isn’t zoned or using an XP / ranking system. 
 

This is a more casual server where anyone can come in and build, roam and scavenge without fear. Removing certain aspects of the server could be the very thing that removes even more traffic from the server.

 

I’d argue that the main fans, subscribers, etc would stay and have no issue. But somebody looking for a no-decay freedom type experience would then have even less severs to choose from.

 

Either way I love the servers, staff, website. This is a great community and system either way.

[koys]

Okay, bring back road scientists(actually good), stop messing with horse dung composting(so-so, its a bit broken), put back those god awful 15 minute timers on crates(terrible, along with adding upkeep).. etc... A change like upkeep makes 0 sense for the argument of a more vanilla experience compared to these other adjusted things that were adjusted outside of vanilla for the sake of QoL and economy.. I already have to farm to build my base, and on this server its nice not having to worry about it afterwards. Players saying that "Oh it'll only take a few hours to maintain for a while" still don't get the argument that not everyone can do that while still having time to do something they actually want to do during their session. I  agree that the niche that this server fills is its own and removing that No Decay factor just makes it another choice amongst the other pve servers that offer basically the same experience. You are going to be removing the "No Decay" from the server name and thus a big factor that made RustEZ pure different from other servers like it.

A small fix to a portion of the issue, why not add a rule to limit how many planters somebody can have in their base... With the 7 I have, I can get a modest ~4.3k cloth per harvest... Some players have massive floors upon floors of farms. Then by the end of the wipe they are just leaving thousands of scrap in a "free to take" box. Why isn't this an issue? If someone's frames are dropping near my base I'd be surprised if their pc is not exploding near a base like that. Talk about ruining the economy (In reference to horse dung vs composters). Then there is an issue! Still, upkeep will not solve this. The same players that do this often spend a majority of their time on the server anyways and thus have time to upkeep these farms since the upkeep will be reduced anyways... I don't see a point.

Also, consider rules on all those cosmetic props like laser lights that people like to spam on their bases...

Now, I don't have an amazing super computer nor a sputtering toaster, but I can play rust on most servers just fine. It makes me wonder if some players are using a system that can't run rust effectively in the first place. My teammate experiences frame drops in certain spots like the oxum/launch site area... ALOT of bases very densely built together,  but he knows its his own issue, and not the server. Which is because some parts are old and needing replacing. (He was able to play smoothly on some past couple wipes where our base was definitely bigger. This wipe we've opted to make our own bases.) I can be in the same area as him where he is having some frame issues and notice nothing on my end. Turn down your graphics, do what you need but if at low you are having trouble.. I hate to say its probably not because of the builds. I'd consider my own base medium-large, but not so giant that its in the way and being a nuisance... I'd even be happy to show screenshots of it (im not a builder, so its a bit ugly haha). It has a front area for horses, an area for a large furnace, a second floor with my planters and mini/boat garage, and a heli tower. It's not "small" like a PVP base, its built so I can enjoy it and have what I need without having to make multiple bases around the map or the main base itself (which players will do to check up on monuments like launch and camp heli spawns with towers that just sit until those spawn!) My teammate's computer also doesn't have trouble near it... The point of mentioning this being that, yes my base is a little bigger, but not enough to be unreasonable. Still enough to be a hassle if I need to farm for an hour when I get on I would say to upkeep it. I don't play every day because I have work and uni. Sometimes I just need to pop on to see if my horses have food. I mentioned in a prior comment that players should be held accountable if their build is causing performance issues... And they should, however I don't see any issues apart from those who are just doing TOO MUCH. Why do you need a giant farm to get thousands of scrap on these servers? Its "the economy", but outside of researching and buying from vending machines/getting a new mini/boat, what are you even using it for.... I don't think you need 10k+ scrap a day to "live comfortably" lol. "Well I want that much scrap" -- Okay, well I want a nice livable base where I don't have to crouch around like I would if it were some honeycombed 2x2. The other ways to gain scrap such as quarries exist too so the need for giant farms to make cloth or sell teas are not necessary.

Frankly I still don't see an issue with players who purposefully log in to make sure their "abandoned empty bases" don't decay after a while. They want their base to remain so they have the option to play when they have free time. You may consider it abandoned but the players who put effort into it and played on the server in the first place do not. I still would like to see more discussion about ways to get around abandoned twig rather than punishing the players with time constraints on how many hours they can play by decaying their base... Even though there is already a system in place for inactivity in the first place. Also, a monthly wipe refreshes the server of all these structures while offering players enough time to enjoy their wipe. I am not going to enjoy my wipe with tedious hitting of stones and metal nodes for the added time it will take.

I am going to be so disappointed if this goes through. I am relieved to see its in the favour of NO again, but its only by 1 and it keeps going back and forth. That tells you that a lot of people don't believe its "broken" just as much as some think it is.. At this point it would be irresponsible of the server to make the change when its such a close race, especially a big one like this. Definitely not going to be able to maintain a base with "everything I need" if it happens because of life things. Out of the 110 and counting that are against this decision, I don't know how many it would kill the server for, but for me and my group it would definitely do just that.

Seriously... I can't understand why players are voting for the added tedium. Why not go to a server that DOES have PVE + Upkeep instead of trying to change this one that has done well just how it is.. Whether its because you supported the server or what have you... I have as well.. This is not a change I am supporting or sticking around for in the end. I supported the server at a point in time where I liked where everything was at. THIS AINT IT!

TLDR;; im pretty against this decision lol
actual TLDR ;; there are lots of non-vanilla aspects to this server, adding upkeep and saying its to be "more vanilla" is a scapegoat, sometimes bad performance is not the server's fault, a lot of players don't have the time to upkeep their bases let alone make extravagant farms and industrial shih to do it for them, consider putting limits on notoriously lag-inducing entities instead, what are the other possibilities to deal with abandoned twig? (twig with no tc = abandoned, imo), farming nodes is tedious and annoying + time consuming, idc if you like hitting rocks. you still have to farm for low grade to use quarries)

[RKF1]

Rust is a survival game, not a building simulator. Vote Yes.

[koys]

Rust is one of the only survival games with an upkeep system afaik
Its good on pvp servers for obvious reasons. PVE, not so much...
 

Survival games are more oriented around the stay alive aspect rather than "maintaining ur base", what am I, a landlord?

[Brictoria]

6 hours ago, RKF1 said:

Rust is a survival game, not a building simulator. Vote Yes.

Using the same reasoning, why shouldn't players also be able to steal from others in order to get what they believe they need for "survival"?

 

Stepping back, what makes up a "survival game": Is it the need to find resources to build a shelter and gather food? If so, in theory "upkeep" (repairs) might be needed for a base, but at the same time that would imply that the base should also be able to be damaged (raiding, for example) and people should be able (required?) to obtain what they need to "survive" in whatever manner they feel is the most efficient method.

 

The "upkeep" (repair) mechanic serves little purpose without a reason that the base would\could be damaged and need repairing: On a PVP server, it serves to limit how much "protection" players can provide to the resources which they have gathered to help themselves "survive", providing the optional ability for other players to acquire what they need from these "protected" storage areas instead of scavenging junk piles, etc. for them, but what purpose does it serve on a PVE server where there is (theoretically) no "requirement"\ability for players to remove resources from another player's base like that, other than to turn the game from a "survival" game into a "resource harvesting" game?

 

 

[a 3/0 sc lauan]

11 hours ago, Brictoria said:

Using the same reasoning, why shouldn't players also be able to steal from others in order to get what they believe they need for "survival"?

 

Stepping back, what makes up a "survival game": Is it the need to find resources to build a shelter and gather food? If so, in theory "upkeep" (repairs) might be needed for a base, but at the same time that would imply that the base should also be able to be damaged (raiding, for example) and people should be able (required?) to obtain what they need to "survive" in whatever manner they feel is the most efficient method.

 

The "upkeep" (repair) mechanic serves little purpose without a reason that the base would\could be damaged and need repairing: On a PVP server, it serves to limit how much "protection" players can provide to the resources which they have gathered to help themselves "survive", providing the optional ability for other players to acquire what they need from these "protected" storage areas instead of scavenging junk piles, etc. for them, but what purpose does it serve on a PVE server where there is (theoretically) no "requirement"\ability for players to remove resources from another player's base like that, other than to turn the game from a "survival" game into a "resource harvesting" game?

 

 

except there is the ability to do that.  grey satchels from decayed/purged bases have always been fair game, granted that's not the intent of the decay, but is allowed.  

the positives here far outweight the negatives, in decay being able to clear foundations/tc's/deployables players placed then forgot about that soak up desirable land from others who actually want to use the space, as well as nudging players who would normally construct an enormous, largely empty base to more efficiently use the space they've claimed, which both creates more usable space for others as well as making flight easier for many not having to load megabases.  

for less than 1000 hqm a day (at vanilla rate, not reduced as is being discussed) my base this wipe includes space for 50 large boxes, a public area, full automated frag, sulfur, and hqm production (with 3 electric furnaces each), automated lgf production (with 3 refineries), automated charcoal production (with 3 small furnaces), automated crafting, 5 mixing tables for ammunition, vending machines, and space for roughly a team of 4 or so, all without having to stumble over deployables.  even if i only tended to the hqm quarry once a day, that's 12.5 days of upkeep per week for 15 minutes a day to refuel and hit the 3 public pumpjacks to keep things running.  And the TC can be fed with pipes ensuring you can log on at your leisure the same as before.

how much extra space do we really need? 

I definitely dont believe it'll be the tedium some are making it out to be, ESPECIALLY at a reduced rate, to the contrary i believe it'll be a relaxing project to keep something on the "to do" list later into wipe.  

[adaptchangeovercome]

I would point out after reading more posts alot of people are experienced in how rust works. The two main reasons i do not like base decay is because new players to the game have somewhere to learn and if they have fun with the game they might bring and make more friends in turn that support community growth. Understanding this game is very complex to new people i myself have played 3 wipes and still have not survived cargo or been able to solo brad. 

 

This is a relaxing place for build testing ideas for even experienced pvp players, New players and people who want a place away from craziness of normal rust.

I would say if you want a alternative to decay why not increase max non log time on to 5 day instead of 7, why not make buildings require double the resources to build?

Thankyou for your time.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2023 by richard1980

[RKF1]

We should revisit this poll. A lot of the people who commented and voted no have moved to other servers. Now especially with no salvage hammer functionality there are so many ghost bases that are just standing there empty and won't decay, causing less space for incoming players and unnecessary lag.

[Death]

1 hour ago, RKF1 said:

We should revisit this poll. A lot of the people who commented and voted no have moved to other servers. Now especially with no salvage hammer functionality there are so many ghost bases that are just standing there empty and won't decay, causing less space for incoming players and unnecessary lag.

There will be a new poll at some point. Need to give players time to adjust to the new vanilla experience.

[Scotty]

Death, maybe instead of a poll it's better to make a command decision about decay as you did with the other changes. The reality of needing decay is unquestionable. Even people with good pcs are crashing their minis cus of render lag atm. If ppl are having problems managing upkeep the community will show them how to industry link chests to the tc and explain how quarries work. Or even larger stack set for the TC is a thing I've seen (if that doesn't effect your listing parameters). And maybe when decay cleans up the server of unused entities which are currently clogging up the servers resources then you could add more ore nodes to help with upkeep, and maybe even random horse and boat spawns like official. A boy can dream.

Edited January 18 by Scotty

[QABreaker]

I have to agree with my teammate Scotty on this one. For Pure, decay doesn't just clean up random bases people make, but also encourages people with mega structures to have to work for what they make. Frankly no one needs a tower base to build limit with 5 windmills on top that render in 2 seconds before you crash into them. To that end, though, maybe make pumpjacks, GE, and Quarries instanced again or there will just be a camp on GE as the mega structure folks just monopolize it. The only other possible solution to structures causing serious lag which I could see would be a limit foundations attached to a TC. 

[a 3/0 sc lauan]

To add to this with some of the recent updates. 

Decay would allow the legacy shacks to poof, as well as the numerous "starter bases" that have been abandoned, and "bear" foundations that are littered all over the place.  I realize that's all less of a hit as far as any lag is concerned, but nice to keep room available for newer/active players looking for a nice spot!

[Scotty]

And we're in a weird place right now because the magic hammer was always the counterbalance and solution for no decay. With that counterbalance gone the only solution is to foundation wipe mistakes, unused bases or superfluous entities. Realistically not many people can, or will, do that, especially upgraded ones. So this problem will not go away on its own. There is only one solution.

And the game is called "Rust", decay is the very nature of the game. 

Edited January 19 by Scotty

[Sentinell]

In this election year of 2024
Pokemon Go to the polls
& Vote for "DK"

[Vorlon]

at the start of 2022 I would have said yes 100 percent as the economy of Pure was broken with instanced quarry and pumpjacks.  I moved to Scourge and appreciated a little bit more upkeep costs, need to keep they quarry going an extra week.  But with  the recent changes to Pure (to which I welcome and I returned to the server) where the quarry is out of action then no I don't see a way to put in upkeep costs without making it a real hardcore server.   Which would to some degree be fun for the real dedicated players, but overall would not see the fantastic number of players seen this month